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Post by AdamDawson2003 on Aug 30, 2015 11:36:11 GMT
I absolutely love 'Cassandra' and I have always felt that it should have been released as an A-Side as its classic ABBA and a more suitable choice as a single, I also feel it would have been a massive hit and it would have done better in the charts than 'The Day Before You Came' which obviously would have made an ideal B-Side.
I have heard a few people say that Epic should have made 'The Day Before You Came' & 'Cassandra' a Double A-Side single in the UK, it still baffles me as to what 'Cassandra' was intended for as it never appeared on The Singles: The First Ten Years so does that mean it was intended for the 9th album along with the other 5 songs and having listened to 'The Day Before You Came' quite alot recently it would have been the ideal closing track on the 9th album.
What are your thoughts?.
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Post by shoshin on Aug 30, 2015 12:58:23 GMT
I absolutely love 'Cassandra' and I have always felt that it should have been released as an A-Side as its classic ABBA and a more suitable choice as a single, I also feel it would have been a massive hit and it would have done better in the charts than 'The Day Before You Came' which obviously would have made an ideal B-Side. I have heard a few people say that Epic should have made 'The Day Before You Came' & 'Cassandra' a Double A-Side single in the UK, it still baffles me as to what 'Cassandra' was intended for as it never appeared on The Singles: The First Ten Years so does that mean it was intended for the 9th album along with the other 5 songs and having listened to 'The Day Before You Came' quite alot recently it would have been the ideal closing track on the 9th album. What are your thoughts?. Wasn't Under Attack classic ABBA too? Yet it wasn't a success. I think that times were changing and TDBYC was a gamble worth taking. Björn has even said that if it had got to number 1 the group may well have continued. Cassandra was a reworked POYWS with more than a dash of the boys' theatrical ambitions. I doubt if it would have been a game changer at that stage. Gorgeous as Frida's solo LAAPTMR is, I wish that one particular version showcased on FATSTAPA, in a higher key and featuring both girls, could have been released as the final single. It's a beautiful and moving song and, especially if they had officially announced the split at the same time, they could have bowed out with a major hit. |
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Post by gogo on Aug 30, 2015 17:30:44 GMT
Sorry ... but no! 'Cassandra' might be popular among fans but I (a fan myself) have always found the song quite boring. Too long, lyrically too pretentious and overall too schlager-esque.
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Post by HOMETIME on Aug 31, 2015 9:06:41 GMT
I liked Cassandra a lot back in the day, but it hasn't stayed with me. I think it was way too good for B-side status and, had there been another album, it would have been a strong album track. But the release of "The Singles - The First Ten Years" suggests that they had abandoned the planned album (probably telling themselves they'd come back to it in a year or so).
For me the chorus is far too busy - I think the verses are beautifully performed and arranged. It feels a little like they were trying to recreate Chiquitita. Cassandra got a fair bit of airplay here in Ireland and ABBA must have held it in some esteem to consider performing it on TV.
Given ABBA's sudden growth spurt in the maturity department, I think it's probably fair to say that anything they would have released would have been hitting lower-than-usual parts of the singles charts. After ABBA and the public had gotten used to that development, I think there could have been a new and rather more respected place for them in the music industry. That said, I think I'd have hated it if ABBA had released Gemini's first album....
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john
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Post by john on Sept 1, 2015 21:44:51 GMT
A lot of effort was put into 'Cassandra' : I think the group must have felt this song was a return to something very familiar, with classic 'schlager' written all over it. Anni-Frid delivers heartwarm vocals, and together the girls harmonize at their best. The backing track obviously takes off where 'Put On Your White Sombrero' left it: Björn and Benny knew from way back in their carreer that pastiche and images in arrangement are strong elements in a classic 'schlager':
'Fernando' proved that; borrowing from 'El Condor Pasa' as recorded by Simon & Garfunkel: the latin American setting and lyrics combined were strong elements. Like 'I Do I Do I Do I Do I Do' flirted with 1950's schlager, 'Happy Hawaii' did it with ocean waves and swaying guitars. Lena Anderssons 'Visa I Citruslunden' as produced by Björn and Benny did it the greek way, 'Chiquitita' the spanish way, 'Money Money Money' and 'Thank You For The Music' have elements from cabaret music.
'Cassandra' sounds by 1982 dated, however. ABBA was mega, they had pushed bounderies, written and produced classic pop music. To write songs for their youngest fans and the 'schlager' audience seemed a step backwards, as if to repeat an old idea. While the album 'The Visitors' seemed to want to direct the group in a new direction, and 'Under Attack', 'The Day Before You Came' and 'I Am The City' were new ideas, 'Cassandra' was clichée. It could have worked if the lyrics in the chorus were better: the protagonist is a bit unclear, and it does not become clear if the Cassandra we meet is the mythological figure or some other story? Perhaps that's why the song does not quite make it big: its concept is unclear. haunting melody lines and catchy arrangement, but no huge pop song -perhaps for ABBA fans only.
No, I do not think 'Cassandra' could have been an A-side and a huge hit. Although I myself thought it a great track way back in 1982, and a favorite today, the recording itself does not stand up against ABBAs classic hits. 'The Day Before You Came' is more epic.
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Post by shoshin on Sept 2, 2015 21:21:47 GMT
...'Under Attack', 'The Day Before You Came' and 'I Am The City' were new ideas... I really enjoyed your analysis, but can't see what was new about Under Attack, which seemed as much a reversion as Head Over Heels to me. Even the lyrics were a prequel to Waterloo; the half-hearted holding out before the inevitable surrender. Unless you mean outside the composition itself? One or two aspects of the production were interesting I suppose. |
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Post by Zeebee on Sept 3, 2015 21:00:18 GMT
Fernando borrowed from El Condor Pasa? I read somewhere that Chiquitita was inspired by El Condor Pasa. I also remember seeing Under Attack described as "un-ABBA-like" |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 12:53:15 GMT
'Cassandra' certainly had zero A-side potential, in my view, especially in terms of its potential ability to stand shoulder to shoulder with ABBA's previous body of work. But then again, to be honest, I'd say the same about 'Under Attack'. And 'One of Us', come to think of it. Their everything-we-touch-turns-to-singles-chart-gold moment had truly passed - even though they saved their finest album to the very last. But that kind of thing has happened with many, many bands who evolved from 'hit machines' to 'makers of serious music'. Even Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull, for instance, started (to a significant extent) as singles-focused bands before ditching all that in favour of a purely album-centric approach. Mott the Hoople, to take one example, went in the opposite direction, churning our classic underground albums (including the peerless 'Brain Capers') before heading for the mainstream, with brilliant hits like 'All the Young Dudes' and 'Honaloochie Boogie'. Will have to think about this one, but are there many examples of bands who flooded the singles charts yet SIMULTANEOUSLY made serious, well-crafted albums with genuine depth? Did ABBA themselves come closest, with 'The Album'  ? Not sure. |
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Post by shoshin on Sept 4, 2015 13:35:12 GMT
...Will have to think about this one, but are there many examples of bands who flooded the singles charts yet SIMULTANEOUSLY made serious, well-crafted albums with genuine depth? Did ABBA themselves come closest, with 'The Album' ? Not sure. Erm..  Erm..    Erm.. Blur with Parklife?  |
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Post by foreverfan on Feb 1, 2017 20:19:19 GMT
Just trying to get some conversation going...  and re visiting some old posts... I can remember way back in 82, on the radio, surprisingly clearly, TDBYC , was struggling, and to attempt to " help" , Cassandra was played several times , as it was thought to be more ABBA and commercial, as we all now know it didn't help and TDBYC slipped out of the charts, only to be one of the best loved in time, and apart from " us fans" Cassandra slips into obscurity. Could it have been any different, with Cassandra being the A side? I doubt it, it may have gone a little higher top 20 ?, but as we know ABBA were going through a tough time personally and musically chart wise here in the U.K. So to answer the question, it would have made hardly any difference, and UA, proved the fact , that at that time ABBA commercially were over. If they took just a short time away, they may have made a comeback. We will never know. Overall just a good album track. |
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Post by wombat on Feb 1, 2017 21:17:27 GMT
I dont think so, not where I lived in America anyway. I admit my slice of America is tiny and I cannot speak for the entire gigantic and fragmented market. As I've said before, even When All Is Said and Done got zero airplay where I lived (Tampa) but apparently in other markets it did well. Cassandra is a good, if not great track - but its not very catchy or hummable. The most successful Abba singles, in America anyway, are the very definition of catchy - they are notorious ear-worms. As someone else mentioned, by then, Abba was yesterdays news and a lot of people had turned their back on the group... they were no longer interested. Under Attack was catchy, and it didnt sell either. Thats a good indication that possibly, nothing Abba released, regardless of how good it was, would have turned the tide in their favor. Its funny how the far left in Sweden always reviled Abba as a money-making machine.... and then apparently when the records stopped selling, the group packed it in. Coincidence or |
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Post by wombat on Feb 1, 2017 21:22:05 GMT
'Cassandra' certainly had zero A-side potential, in my view, especially in terms of its potential ability to stand shoulder to shoulder with ABBA's previous body of work. But then again, to be honest, I'd say the same about 'Under Attack'. And 'One of Us', come to think of it. Their everything-we-touch-turns-to-singles-chart-gold moment had truly passed - even though they saved their finest album to the very last. But that kind of thing has happened with many, many bands who evolved from 'hit machines' to 'makers of serious music'. Even Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull, for instance, started (to a significant extent) as singles-focused bands before ditching all that in favour of a purely album-centric approach. Mott the Hoople, to take one example, went in the opposite direction, churning our classic underground albums (including the peerless 'Brain Capers') before heading for the mainstream, with brilliant hits like 'All the Young Dudes' and 'Honaloochie Boogie'. Will have to think about this one, but are there many examples of bands who flooded the singles charts yet SIMULTANEOUSLY made serious, well-crafted albums with genuine depth? Did ABBA themselves come closest, with 'The Album' ? Not sure. Mott the Hoople! Never thought I'd see them get a nod on here. Mott only "went mainstream" when their luck truly ran out. Or so says Hunter. They desperately needed airplay, a big hit, and Bowie gave them one. And once you have a big hit.... not only do bands tend to want more of what that brings them... but more importantly, their record co and management do as well. |
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Post by crackinup on Feb 5, 2017 0:17:53 GMT
I have never been too fond of Cassandra. Since I largely ignore the lyrics of songs I can only speak about the musical aspect of the song. I agree that it is quite boring, I can't see any memorable hooks in it. Also, it feels like the song itself doesn't know what it wants to be. There is that pseudo-Latin American backing in the background during the chorus but then again it has a synth colour in the verses, well, except for the last verse with the accordion (?). The melody of the verses are just fine. In my opinion, a new chorus and a let less of the jarring schlager and pseudo-Spanish backing would have helped. But no, it doesn't seem like A-side material by ABBA's standards.
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Post by madonnabba on Aug 29, 2017 8:49:57 GMT
No. The song has not dated well. Really puzzled why The Visitors was not released as a single at this time. Another oppurtunity was missed in 2008 in the height of Mammma Mia movie fever when Slipping through my fingers was not released to tap into The mother/ daughter market. Could have been another number one. Cassandra just didn't do it for me. Liked the new experimentation of tracks like I am the city, should I laugh or cry and TDBYC. Under attack is fine lyrically but think musically it sounded more 1979 than 1982 with Human league etc making their presence known- once referred to as the electronic Abba. Think some of the songs from this time, with a little more work on lyrics and some of the music penned for Chess would have been the body of work for Opus 10 had the boys not been determined todo Chess. Songs such as Anthem, I know him so well, heaven help my heart, one night in Bangkok would have made it but maybe not with the same titles or lyrics as Tim Rice had an influence on these. Cassandra and Poyws sound good vocally but just sound dated. And I am not that keen on the lyrics. Sound like working titles for songs like Billy boy and boogaloo.
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Post by Zeebee on Aug 29, 2017 21:41:16 GMT
Fernando borrowed from El Condor Pasa? I read somewhere that Chiquitita was inspired by El Condor Pasa. I read that in From ABBA To Mamma Mia. I think it's in the introduction. |
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Post by WATERLOO on Aug 30, 2017 12:22:16 GMT
Fernando borrowed from El Condor Pasa? I read somewhere that Chiquitita was inspired by El Condor Pasa. I also remember seeing Under Attack described as "un-ABBA-like" In fact, none of the songs "borrowed" from El Condor Pasa. Both are individual compositions. Maybe there are some subtle similarities in terms of production (i.e. which instruments plays what) but in terms of the chord progressions, the three songs are all different. It's not a big thing but it does annoy me, especially in a time where pop music is merely a collection of samples or blatantly rips of other people's work (Born This Way is a rehash of Express Yourself, California Gurls is a rehash of Tik Tok) I think it is a little mean to say an ABBA-songs "borrows" from another song when Benny and Björn always payed attention to their compositions being as original as possible. |
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Post by gary on Aug 30, 2017 12:35:06 GMT
^
Yes! I quite agree.
There are a few (very few) parts of ABBA songs that were, accidentally or otherwise, 'borrowed' from earlier songs. Examples might be that line in Knowing Me Knowing You, or some bits of On And On And On, Ring Ring and Waterloo. But IMHO Benny and Bjorn were almost always astonishingly original and inventive composers.
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Post by shoshin on Sept 3, 2017 23:00:07 GMT
^ ...IMHO Benny and Bjorn were almost always astonishingly original and inventive composers. I'm unstinting in my praise for B & B's songwriting; it's one of the main reasons for my interest in ABBA. They were certainly capable of original touches that turned some already very good songs into works of genius. However, I would take some convincing that their compositions were often spectacularly original. Isaac Newton said that if he had seen further it was by standing on the shoulders of giants, and similarly I'm sure that B & B would acknowledge that the foundations of their success were built on their influences. What would you cite as prime examples of their originality? |
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Post by shoshin on Sept 3, 2017 23:51:26 GMT
Fernando borrowed from El Condor Pasa? I read somewhere that Chiquitita was inspired by El Condor Pasa... In fact, none of the songs "borrowed" from El Condor Pasa. Both are individual compositions....It's not a big thing but it does annoy me... The term 'borrowed' doesn't have to mean that the same chord progressions were used, but can simply be alleging an influence or inspiration. From their inception, ABBA borrowed from Middle Of The Road. Agnetha's look borrowed from Sally Carr's; see Soley Soley for example. The intro to Fernando sounds like it has borrowed from Middle Of The Road's Union Silver. Agnetha later covered this song as En sång om sorg och glädje. Earlier in their career, Middle Of The Road were a Latin American style band called Los Caracas, and they recorded El Condor Pasa. Coincidences? Quite possibly. But everyone borrows. Soley Soley - Agnetha & Frida even borrowed Sally's boots  Union SilverEn sång om sorg och glädjeEl Condor Pasa (Middle Of The Road) |
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Post by gary on Sept 4, 2017 7:33:06 GMT
^ What would you cite as prime examples of their originality? OK, that's a good question. The three consecutive singles of Knowing Me Knowing You, The Name Of The Game and Take A Chance On Me sound like nothing I have ever heard elsewhere. But I have a feeling I am about to be shot down... :-) |
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Post by WATERLOO on Sept 4, 2017 20:53:58 GMT
Although Sally Carr just looked like many women in the late 1960s/early 1970s. Agentha more or less had the same look from 1968–1973, so that was even before Middle of The Road was founded and rose to fame.
And as I said, it's not a big thing and maybe it's also a matter of translation and not being a native speaker. But for me borrowing means to take something that is owned by somebody else to use not for myself (and then hopefully return it later). Inspiration is a different thing, though, although I'd even disagree here as ABBA's music is so highly influenced by classical music, northern folk and German schlager, none of which can be said about Simon And Garfunkel. Even if they tried to create some latin sounding songs, they still sound very very European. Fernando and Chiquitita are so European to my ears, they are by far no La Isla Bonita.
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Post by Tinneke on Mar 20, 2023 18:58:20 GMT
No. no. no! It was such an old-fashioned schlager like song. Dated at the time while The day was such a progression! One of their greatest track with a stunning lead vocal by Agnetha
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 16:57:04 GMT
Of the 6 ABBA songs recorded in 1982, I think this is the cream of the crop. Single material? Probably not - but ABBA from 1981 ceased to be singles artists.
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Post by lamont on Mar 24, 2023 19:47:05 GMT
When I first heard Cassandra in around 1990, I totally loved it, especially the verses and then that sweeping chorus. The final verse was so sad and forlorn with the seagulls bleating in the background, I definitely wanted it as an A side.
Whether I overplayed it or just with passing of time it has withered away as a favourite, where I kind of wondered why I was so enamoured in the first place. I’d even say I prefer Sombrero more now. Maybe it will talk to me again, I do think it’s a beautiful fable about the Greek Princess (in the 90s I was interested in Greek mythology so perhaps that enhanced my love for the song.)
My Aunt who was an English teacher liked the lyrics, though she also thought that Cassandra could also have been a metaphor for Sweden on the world stage, as it was recognised as a neutral country, though that interpretation went right over my head.
It was interesting how she saw some of Bjorn’s lyrics as poems and others as lyrics. She especially liked Slowly, The Day Before You Came, The Visitors, IHAD (lovely metaphor for life she thought.) I need to think of others that she mentioned, though she thought I Am The Universe was pretentious. She was very enthusiastic about Bjorn’s skills as a lyricist.
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? Not sure. 
and re visiting some old posts...
