|
Post by jsdyson on Oct 14, 2017 23:57:41 GMT
I have have sent a link to two samples -- been in the hospital for a few days - so no chance to prepare something perfect (I mean, properly finalized.) I feel like I owe you some samples, however. The SuperTrouper and Name of the Game samples have only had minor amounts of processing added, and need some tweaking. I didn''t add the more complete expansion and matrix (against l+r, m+s and in between) and minor recompression yet in this case only due to the fact I am still under the weather and it will take a few hours of work to do correctly. The best sounding copy I believe is name of the game, but you'll find that super trouper is missing the terrible intermod at the beginning that exists on most copies. I don't have the DolbyA decoding thresholds set right (oops -- gave something away) -- because my DolbyA decoder is still being tuned up. Also, these copies are in DESPERATE need for eq -- so you are hearing fairly raw stuff. One thing that you'll notice -- no matter some of the defects is real dynamic range. It is still abba-squashed, and no where near the real dynamic range in the samples elsewhere in this forum -- but these are copies that are close to what would be finalized into a CD or music file. Here is the URL: spaces.hightail.com/space/bOPBXTkeeTnog.mp3 is Name of the Game st.mp3 is SuperTrouper. All of the processing was done at 96k and there was some lost quality in conversion to 44.1k mp3 at fairly middle bitrate, but not much. Some of the other songs that I have are much clearer to begin with, but these are two of the more famous songs that I have copies of. Give me feedback. I plan to do better when I get my strength back. I have had better versions -- but I have redone some of the work and it got a lilttle messed up. John Dyson
|
|
|
Post by jsdyson on Oct 12, 2017 5:38:47 GMT
Wow -- I feel like a fool. I found the pristine/unprocessed version on this website. I didn't look all too carefully until now and it is beautiful.
My version (when made ready) will sound to the average person like the version that is used before being 'processed' for the target media. So, don't expect such extreme beauty like the version that I listened to. Wish that I had such copies before.
When they did the processing on the versions that I had -- they did things that I just cannot undo (and I am good at things like this.)
What I can do (and will do), is to do as much of ABBA GOLD that I can do. It does NOT sound nearly as good as the recording session version, but sounds 100% better than any other CD that I have heard.
So, my version sounds like something that you can play in the car -- and is basically the normal releases with appropriate cleanup.
John Dyson
|
|
|
Post by jsdyson on Oct 12, 2017 5:27:08 GMT
Sorry that I forgot that I posted to this forum...
I'll try to find a download site to send a copy of a current test -- I have SuperTrouper without essentially no audible intermod at the beginning... Also -- I am going to try to decide which other I plan to send -- maybe Name of the Game or some other. For legal reasons I might have to limit to 20-30 seconds, but I certainly willing to do so simply to show how good they can sound (from a standard HiFi standpoint.) Maybe 'the powers that be' might be motivated to produce a little better quality (no more extreme compression or other games.)
One minor bit of trouble that I have with listening is that the 'beat' is a little more intense than one would normally expect... They seem to have done a good job in providing fake bass in some songs so that the bass is more compatible with casual radio listening. That issue is gone also -- but again, the sound is a little different than most of the other CDs that I have heard. Maybe my versions sound something (very, very approximately) like the Polar versions with less compression???
An techie issue that I find to be vexing (and seem to be almost intractible problem without doing some kind of matrix operation to pull the voices out of the chorus), is that during 'SuperTrouper', they have this insidious chorus effect that I have tried several times to cancel out to bring forward the voices. Some of the voices can be brought forward by doing a matrix (I forget if it is m/s or something between m/s and l+r), but I don't like doing that kind of thing (one copy of SuperTrouper that I have -- they actually seem to change the matrix during the song!!!) You can hear the shift if you listen carefully. After tying to cancel with a simple echo cancellation and an ad-hoc reverb cancellation - I think that they might be using an early reverb unit or some other effect that is almost impossible to undo.) If I had the patience, I might be able to find a matrix combination to extract the voices and then merge them with some kind of time or phase shift -- but that is too complicated... Everything that I am doing is special purpose software -- I haven't found any plugins that do anything like what I really want to do.)
I do wish that all of the songs were done in a way that the beauty of their voices would be clearer.
So -- I am going to look around for a site to deposit some examples and make that available very soon.
My current working versions use little/no compression and are all expansion oriented (but not simple dB linear expansion per-se.) The only reasons that my tests currently use any compression oriented techniques is that sometimes my tests produce insane loudness and I like for my ears to live another day. I doubt that anyone with normal ears could hear the effects of my AGC systems under normal conditions (no audible pumping/ducking or anything like that -- and generally no extreme increase in density.) However -- that isn't the subject of this discussion.
I do enjoy ABBA and wish they were still doing really new stuff. Will try to get back with this group within a few days at most.
John Dyson
|
|
|
Post by jsdyson on Sept 5, 2017 6:53:50 GMT
I am using all self written software. I have an approximate DolbyA decoder (written by myself -- using lots of online specs and schematics) that seems to help some of the copies that I have. Sometimes, the music is too damaged by the record/recording companies. A few years ago (probably decade or so), I got a copy of an album that hasn't been so very damaged, but is still very compressed (for example, the song "Super Trouper" doesn't have the obvious intermodulation distortion that is so common on American and other releases.) For the life of me, I cannot remember my source -- but I do use that source for some of my tests. It really might be simply DolbyA encoded, but I am not sure. I have several kinds of technology -- inline expanders and sidechain style expanders (which include a very good DolbyA expander/decoder emulation.) The DolbyA experiment started a few weeks after noticing the extreme compression on my copy of some songs which include 'Super Trouper', 'Waterloo' and 'SOS.' I do know that they guys seem to like the 'AM' compressed sound, but it really does obscure the beauty of their music. Unless the compression is 'hard limiting' or the other unpleasant games that I have heard (by the record producers) which seem to include changing the matrix in realtime -- that is -- moving L+R to M+S or inbetween while the song is in progress -- yuck... Those games really don't appear to exist on the master because so many other versions don't have that game being played. Their music (ABBA) just hasn't gotten enough 'respect' by those who handle it. During my experiments, I have really found how difficult it is to make the ABBA music comply with the desires of everyone, but it would be nice to hear the music in more pristine form. I have heard a (I think) Polar release that seems to have been less damaged than others.
Oh well -- great group. Too bad that they are getting old like I am. They should stay young and should all have had a happier life than it seems like a few of them have had...
John Dyson
|
|
|
Post by jsdyson on Jul 28, 2017 2:34:52 GMT
I am very much an ABBA fan -- not just a fan of any one of the individuals, but respect their work/music so very much. I have been working on audio processing software, and have often been using ABBA music sources as test subjects.
I have gotten some exceptional results while trying to take the best music sources that I could find, and bring the ABBA sound up to date (still sounds like ABBA -- just a little clearer/less processed sounding.) I am not into 'forum' type stuff very much, but very much a SW nerd. If anyone is interested, I'll see if I can post it somewhere. My results sound better (to me) than any other copy of Super Trouper that I have ever heard (more natural sounding.) That nasty intermod at the beginning of almost any CD version that I have heard is totally missing (for example.) The processor is pretty good at what it does (pretty far beyond the typical attack/release type compressor/expander.)
The software works in two major phases (but has a multitude of processing steps.) First, the music is aggressively expanded in various directions (hard to explain - but not volume expanded ONLY in the normal stereo sense), and then recompressed to a reasonable dynamic range. The results have been pretty good. There is very little of the obnoxious intermod at the beginning of Super Trouper. The worst chorus sound is actually provided in this example (the rest of the choruses are a little better.) I can remove almost all of the 'dense chorus', but that also removes the ABBA sound, so I left in some of the chorus while also trying to soften it a little. There is a parameter that I can set that will make the chorus sound smooth, but that would ruin the 'ABBA' sound.
The processor used is totally automatic once it gets started -- also NO additional sound has been added -- only gain management (and mathematical add/subtract) and no additional delay/add type stuff (no new echos or reverb.)
I don't know if I can post a short clip here or maybe on facebook (I could email a short clip if desired.) I know that I cannot legally release an entire ABBA Gold album, but wanna see what I can do to help others enjoy the music better.
Best wishes -- maybe the results that I have gotten might be enjoyed by someone.
John Dyson
|
|