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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 12:12:43 GMT
I remember the summer of 1979 and hearing ABBA's double A-side release of both songs. I used to prefer VV to A. However, recently I have been listening to A frequently and now prefer it to VV. I went through a love/hate relationship with A over the years which leads me to start another discussion regarding fans' love/hate relationship with ABBA songs. PS it still narks me that "Rock Me" was included within the compilation "Greatest Hits Vol 2". Why ? The record companies were clearly deluded.
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Post by Alan on Aug 15, 2019 16:39:01 GMT
Rock Me was included on Greatest Hits Vol 2 as it was a hit in Australia (in reality, it was the flip side of I Do and they merely turned over the same record and promoted it). I Wonder is the real head-scratcher. The only one not to be a single anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 20:54:37 GMT
'Rock Me' reached No.4 in Australia and No.2 in New Zealand. In both Countries its 'I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do', 'A' Side was a No.1 Hit. I always thought that 'Rock Me' sounded like ABBA trying to copy off Slade. It is more of a Rock 'Shouty' Song, than an ABBA Pop Song. 'Rock Me' was going to be used in a 'Boat Scene' in 'Mamma Mia!', but they decided to leave it out...
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Post by foreverfan on Aug 21, 2019 14:22:20 GMT
Today.. Ironically Angeleyes played on UK radio 2 Steve Wright in the Afternoon show.. couldn’t believe 40 years ago and mentioned that the harmonies are very complicated.. Its been a little bit of ABBA this week I’ve heard VV and DQ in the past few days.. still radio favourites..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 17:17:45 GMT
I don't think some of the DJ's on Radio 1 were fans of ABBA in particular Peter Powell, Richard Skinner and Mark Goodacre. The loyal ones were Tony Blackburn who used to present on Radio 1 and Terry Wogan who presented on Radio 2 all the while.
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Post by HOMETIME on Aug 22, 2019 19:30:04 GMT
I've never been a fan of the whole Double A-side concept if both tracks are from the same album. One track always suffers, like a default B-side. "Voulez-Vous" was strong enough to lead a charge on the charts on its own. I wasn't so confident about "Angeleyes" at the time and was a little taken aback that its side A1 status effectively relegated the album's sassy title track to almost-B-side status.
All these years later, I tend to favour "Angeleyes" over "Voulez-Vous." I love the whole Motown/disco hybrid and the way that its intrinsic ABBAness cuts through any categorisation. What really tipped the balance for me, was John Grant's gorgeously heartbroken acoustic cover.
Speaking of the intricate harmonies on offer, I recently found these videos on YouTube. Both sides of the single represented.
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Post by madonnabba on Aug 22, 2019 20:50:20 GMT
Love both of these tracks. I consider them to be two of the strongest tracks on the album. Interesting to hear just the vocals.
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Post by Alan on Aug 22, 2019 21:38:49 GMT
What really tipped the balance for me, was John Grant's gorgeously heartbroken acoustic cover. And also the Czars’ version. Is it just me, or do the lyrics sound quite sinister in these versions? It’s now a man singing and the “young girl” line is changed to “young boy” and to me this implies something much worse is going on. I seem to recall a disagreement I had with a non-native English speaker on a previous forum about how “young girl” can still imply someone of 16 or older but “young boy” might not. Certainly in UK English, we’d tend to say “young man” or “young lad” to mean a young adult. For some unknown reason, “girl” or even “young girl” can still imply someone in their late teens or early 20s. A friend heard one of those versions (I think it was the Czars one) and, although they knew it was an ABBA cover, they weren’t familiar with the original. At that point, I hadn’t heard the version they were referring to but they wanted me to confirm what and who the song is about in ABBA’s version. It was only when I heard it for myself that I realised why they were asking.
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Post by shoshin on Aug 22, 2019 23:38:30 GMT
I don't think some of the DJ's on Radio 1 were fans of ABBA in particular Peter Powell, Richard Skinner and Mark Goodacre. The loyal ones were Tony Blackburn who used to present on Radio 1 and Terry Wogan who presented on Radio 2 all the while. In the video below, Richard Skinner is interviewing ABBA, which is being recorded for another programme. He thinks that he is being asked to put a question to ABBA (why are they so big around the world), but they actually want his own opinion. While Skinner's spur of the moment compliment doesn't mark him out as a fan, it seems fairly genuine
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Post by HOMETIME on Aug 23, 2019 12:17:51 GMT
What really tipped the balance for me, was John Grant's gorgeously heartbroken acoustic cover. And also the Czars’ version. Is it just me, or do the lyrics sound quite sinister in these versions? It’s now a man singing and the “young girl” line is changed to “young boy” and to me this implies something much worse is going on. Sorry, Alan. I did mean The Czars (lead vocal by John Grant; I know he did a live version with Villagers later, but the Czars' version is the definitive one for me) I have to admit that I didn't notice the "young boy" nuance at first, and simply wondered why he hadn't used "guy" instead. The sinister retelling really changes everything, adding layers and layers to an otherwise traditional love gone wrong lyric. Grant is quite the ABBA fan. He also does a lovely modern version of "My Love, My Life." I know that the whole Mamma Mia thing is enormously successful, but there are times when I try to imagine a whole new story rooted in ABBA songs, something more human and relatable. For instance, I feel that "I Wonder (Departure)" could be a coming out song - you wouldn't even have to change a word. Weaving that alternative "Angeleyes" theme into the storyline would make things darker, but if ABBA's music couldn't soundtrack a dark story, whose could?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 12:27:33 GMT
Richard Skinner certainly plays with a nice straight bat there. Impossible to tell his inmost thoughts, of course, but at the very least he avoids answering with that amused, ironic tone beloved of so many radio/media types and focuses on giving a pretty solid, fact-based reply.
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Post by Alan on Aug 23, 2019 12:57:22 GMT
HOMETIME, yes, “young guy” is another acceptable alternative I was looking for. The combination of “young” and “boy” suggests only one thing to me. It must have been intentional in both those versions?
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Post by HOMETIME on Aug 24, 2019 12:52:41 GMT
I wonder if John Grant is on Twitter.... Maybe I could ask him that question.
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Post by Zeebee on Aug 26, 2019 20:52:33 GMT
I seem to recall a disagreement I had with a non-native English speaker on a previous forum about how “young girl” can still imply someone of 16 or older but “young boy” might not. Certainly in UK English, we’d tend to say “young man” or “young lad” to mean a young adult. For some unknown reason, “girl” or even “young girl” can still imply someone in their late teens or early 20s. The same is true here in the USA.
If a male singer were to record a cover of I Am Just A Girl, hopefully it would be I Am Just A Guy, not I Am Just A Boy.
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Post by josef on Aug 26, 2019 22:27:29 GMT
It's such a shame we live in a world where words can have an ominous meaning that might not be intended. Such is life. I do love John Grant's version of Angeleyes. That's the way to cover an ABBA song- take a totally different approach. For some reason, covers of ABBA songs seem to work best when stripped back.
Incidentally, I can remember thinking back in the day how the ABBA members were always referred to as "the girls" or "the boys" when in fact they were fully grown adults already in their twenties. I guess it was easier. We can make too much of things, especially these days. Times have changed. A perfectly innocent expression can now have a totally different perception now. It's all about intention. Gotta tread carefully. I'm not sure Björn wouldn't tweak the lyrics of, say, a song like 'Does Your Mother Know' now. Having said that, it can also go the other way- many songs these days are explicitly sexual and so on. Maybe I'm getting old but I really think it's a poor show when so-called artists resort to scraping the barrel using references to violence and gun crime and refer to women in quite a derogatory way. Etc. Anyway, homily over!
I think we were quite lucky to have ABBA - not squeaky clean but they sang about LOVE. Something sorely lacking in this increasingly troubled world.
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Post by HOMETIME on Aug 27, 2019 13:04:03 GMT
The evolution of language, intention, and artistic reinterpretation might all have a part to play here. If English wasn't John Grant's first language, I'd be better prepared to consider it a linguistic accident.The replacement of just one word in "Angeleyes" changes the story utterly. I think Bjorn would approve. I think it unlikely that Grant, a very intelligent and articulate lyricist himself, would have been unaware of the different impact of the difference between guy and boy.
As for "the boys and girls in ABBA," my elderly neighbour refers to other women as girls - one such girl celebrated her 70th birthday last Sunday. I notice that Benny and Bjorn have to stop themselves referring to Frida and Agnetha as girls. It's cute (even if one the accidental sexism drives one of my friends insane!).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 17:01:51 GMT
Thank you very much, Hometime, for the alternate versions of "Angeleyes" and "Voulez-Vous". It is interesting to hear different mixes and demo versions of ABBA songs. It is pure testimony that every attention to detail was so cleverly emphasised on each recording. ABBA were truly talented.
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Post by Alan on Jul 21, 2023 22:51:21 GMT
I’m resurrecting this thread because I happened to catch Top of The Pops from this week in 1979 on BBC Four tonight.
David Jensen introduced the Voulez-Vous video by explaining it was a double A-side, with Angeleyes on one side and this one on the other.
Angeleyes remains the only track on the Voulez-Vous album for which no visual performance was ever made. Even As Good As New was performed on the tour that year (though no footage of it exists).
My understanding is that the two tracks were alternated on radio chart shows (and presumably both tracks got airplay outside of that?) but any TV promotion had no choice but to use the Voulez-Vous video.
The double A-side strategy clearly worked, as the single was a bigger hit in the UK than it was in most other countries, but I’d still love to know how it came about. CBS/Epic didn’t just choose it randomly, they would have done market research on the popularity of the two tracks. The outcome led to Angeleyes being the favoured A-side and therefore listed first.
There was no chance of ABBA filming a video for it, or coming to the UK to promote it, and Angeleyes wasn’t one of the tracks performed on ABBA In Switzerland. Therefore what made the UK licensee so sure of it that it could overcome such obstacles? And also that, as the track was listed first, it was intended to be the primary A-side even though in reality both tracks would have to get exposure?
It wouldn’t be the last time this happened either. Lay All Your Love On Me similarly had no visual performance whereas its b-side, On and On and On, kind of did. That time there was no double A-side and a rather dodgy video assembled, but again it somehow worked commercially.
This is where I really wish someone who worked for CBS in the UK at that time would come out of the woodwork and give an insight on how and why certain decisions were made. As a major player in a major market, they could advise and influence Polar to their advantage, but clearly not in all cases.
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Post by foreverfan on Jul 22, 2023 8:33:05 GMT
Alan I doubt anyone will come out of the woodwork let alone remember decisions made, which is a shame . You could argue both tracks actually missed out as " which one to play . Could it have made number one, if Angeleyes was the A side, it's possible but unlikely , Boomtown Rats were solidly at number one with I don't like Mondays a new direction in music.. As we know there were a few discrepancies on chart positions at the time, I can't really recall why. But I do remember as time went by. In its chart run That AA was favoured over VV so it's strange how rolls reversed as years went by .. why... is it that AA dated ?
I guess a better question would be " Wrong decisions " made by record companies, it's always easier on reflection , but there were some obvious errors, I guess the most glaring was WAISAD but were there others ?
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Post by HOMETIME on Jul 22, 2023 11:29:39 GMT
[...] There was no chance of ABBA filming a video for [Angeleyes] [...] The more I see the 1979 videos, the more annoyed I get. The clips filmed in 1979 must rank as ABBA's laziest and cheapest videos ever. Keeping the cameras in situ and allowing for three costume changes (white/pink-purple/black), they could have filmed performances of every track on the album in a day. A little canny editing would have given them ten videos and/or a TV special. I wonder if Epic spotted that, when ABBA's singles had a little more sonic edge, were slightly harder - e.g. SNC and DYMK - their chart positions were slightly lower than desired? If so, might that explain them hedging their bets by pairing the poppier Angeleyes with the slightly tougher VV?
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Post by Alan on Jul 22, 2023 11:52:50 GMT
On the subject of 1979 videos… the hurried, BBC-produced Chiquitita snowman promo wasn’t even filmed until mid-February, and the single had peaked by 17 Feb. Did they use the black outfit UNICEF performance to promote it? I must have missed any Top of The Pops repeats with that in.
I’d say Gimme Gimme Gimme, and even Estoy Soñando, are the best of the 1979 videos. It’s at least a real setting. All fake as they’ve already recorded the song by then, but still fun to see them where the song (and much of the album) was made.
What does save the 1979 videos for me is the fact that all four of them still looked good. They still looked like classic ABBA, for the last time. I’d take cheap videos with that look than better videos where they look crap (ie. all 1980 to early 1982 promos).
Back to Angeleyes / Voulez-Vous… looking again at the charts on Wikipedia, there’s only Belgium where Voulez-Vous did better than the double A-side in both the UK and Ireland. Belgium can perhaps be ignored as they seemed to be guaranteed to make any ABBA single a number one. However, in the other ABBA-loyalist country, the Netherlands, it only made number 3 or 4 (depending on which chart you use). In other countries it did considerably less well.
(Does anyone else’s auto-correct insist on changing it to “Voulez-avoid”? Indeed, that seems to be what some listeners did worldwide…)
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Post by richard on Jul 22, 2023 14:39:40 GMT
Angeleyes is one of my top favourite ABBA tracks, and I've always preferred it to Voulez-Vous! For me, it's one of the best examples of Agnetha and Frida's combined vocals. But I don't think Benny and/or Bjorn were too enamoured of the song at the time of recording. Didn't Benny once say that that the key seemed, paradoxically, both too high and too low at the same time? I don't get that. I think he also said that he found it more like a pop song from a previous era; but that it didn't matter 'now' (at the time Benny made the comment) as the years had moved on.
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Post by Michal on Jul 22, 2023 19:48:36 GMT
Angeleyes has been my favourite since I first heard it on the GH2 album (the record that introduced me to ABBA in mid-90s) and it never leaves my Top 20. I like the rhytmic feel of the lyrics in the verses and the contrasting "flow" of the choruses. Also the joint vocals are pure heaven IMO. Voulez-Vous, on the other hand, was just "one of those disco tracks" for me for a very long time and even though it has grown on me since, it's still in the "average" ABBA song category (but as I like every ABBA song, "average" means pretty good :-) )
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Post by iiwftn on Jul 27, 2023 23:03:52 GMT
That’s because the King Kong Song is awesome!
Personally, I’ve always preferred Angeleyes over VV.
Whilst VV has survived better and even blossomed in this social media age (a Tik-Tok standard) I just think the pure-pop melodic genius of Angeleyes makes it a better song; indeed one of their very best.
There are several “if only” moments in ABBA’s history. Not having any tv performance or promotional clip for Angeleyes ranks near the summit.
As an aside, the one other track that I feel really deserved to be caught on film, was “Gonna Sing you my Love Song”.
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Post by Alan on Jul 28, 2023 8:42:37 GMT
Welcome to the forum, iiwftn. You’ve certainly livened up the place after it had gone a bit quiet. And another Angeleyes fan!
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Post by iiwftn on Aug 17, 2023 11:11:12 GMT
Welcome to the forum, iiwftn. You’ve certainly livened up the place after it had gone a bit quiet. And another Angeleyes fan! Kind words, Alan and thank you. Am I right in saying that Benny was unhappy with Angeleyes and therefore was happy to see VV get the spotlight?
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Post by lamont on Aug 17, 2023 11:35:17 GMT
Welcome to the forum, iiwftn. You’ve certainly livened up the place after it had gone a bit quiet. And another Angeleyes fan! Kind words, Alan and thank you. Am I right in saying that Benny was unhappy with Angeleyes and therefore was happy to see VV get the spotlight? In the mid nineties, yes. In the Complete Recording Sessions book in 1994 it stated that B&B thought the song was a bit dated and didn’t think it should have been included on the album. I think the Motown pastiche is one of its charms, and certainly they must have given it the green light for it to be included in 2nd Mamma Mia movie. I think in the DVD interviews Benny says that all his songs he likes in their own wee way.
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Post by Alan on Aug 17, 2023 15:27:21 GMT
I think in the DVD interviews Benny says that all his songs he likes in their own wee way. Apart from Just Like That of course! “We didn’t like it” etc.
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Post by stoppedawhile4achat on Apr 9, 2024 17:59:35 GMT
I think I read somewhere that ‘I Wonder’ was their manager Stig’s favourite of all the ABBA tracks and he wanted it on GHV2
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Post by iiwftn on Apr 11, 2024 13:16:08 GMT
Another reason why I’d have loved to have seen Angeleyes included in the Voyage concert would be to give it its long overdue visual of the group ‘performing’ this wonderful song after 40-odd years of neglect.
Damn, it’s a bloody good song.
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