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Post by Alan on Sept 17, 2023 20:54:51 GMT
Er… hairstyles?? It’s possible their faces might be more 1979 but the jury is out. There was a comparison once of how they looked in the Knowing Me, Knowing You video with how the ABBATars looked. Benny, especially, looked older but the others didn’t really. Frida’s hair is the real giveaway - that can only be 1977. Edit: found the comparison photos:  |
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Post by iiwftn on Sept 17, 2023 21:18:04 GMT
I had the pleasure of watching ABBA: The Movie in the cinema this evening.
It was a surreal experience because having persuaded my wife and kids to join me, I fully expected it to be just the four of sitting in a near-empty theatre. Yet I was surprised to discover that the place was completely packed out.
I’ve watched The Movie plenty of times in the past but never on the big screen. It was amazing seeing it in such a setting and the thing that really struck me was how at times, it was hard to imagine that the concerts took place 46 years ago. It was as far away from the year 2000 as what we are now to the year 2000. Yet seeing some of the crisp close-ups of ABBA, you could almost feel like the footage was shot last week.
Whilst the weak storyline of the dodgy radio presenter hasn’t aged well, the songs and performances in Australia were a joy to watch. Interestingly, I felt that two of the stronger songs that really come through were ‘Rock Me’ and ‘He is your Brother’. I’d also add ‘I’ve Been Waiting for You’ was wonderful to see again too, and of course, ‘Tiger’ in the pouring rain is a great watch.
Before the movie, there were adverts for ‘Voyage’ and the Stockholm museum. We were then given a fantastic short clip of some of the ‘77 tour rehearsals (which I’d never seen before). Then it was straight into the film, complete with the re-affirming sight of a kangaroo licking its own testicles.
The audience were mostly of a mature age but there was also a smattering of younger people. After the film ended, there were a few karaoke sing-along numbers which got a good number of people out of their seats dancing.
All in all, a great experience, but once again left me yearning for a ‘Get Back’-style reboot of that iconic ‘77 tour footage.
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Post by iiwftn on Sept 17, 2023 21:39:47 GMT
The girls’ hair is the giveaway. Pure 1977.
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mjc
Bronze Member
From Ireland, living in Tokyo.
Posts: 22
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Post by mjc on Sept 18, 2023 8:05:54 GMT
Hi all,
I can't go to see the movie but I want to say that one of the high points for me when I saw it in 1978 was 'Get on the Carousel'.
It was a rocker and I loved it so much I was devastated they never released it. When I saw the movie 2 more times in 1978 and about a year or two later one of the reasons I went was to try to memorize the song. I know it was subsumed into Hole in Your Soul .. but still I think it is different and energetic enough to get its own release.
Anyone else a fan of it?
Martin
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Post by jj on Sept 18, 2023 16:40:08 GMT
The girls’ hair is the giveaway. Pure 1977. It's often said that the most accurate way to determine which year, or even what part of any one year, any image or performance of ABBA was taken/shot, is to check Frida's hair style.[/div]
So yes, it seems obvious Frida's avatar is based on her hair as it was between February and December (?) 1977.
"Agnetha"'s Voyage hair, though, spans between late 1976 all the way to 1979, as she kept that same, basic long hair (with only slight modifications) right up until just before the Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! promo was filmed, when she appeared with her first-ever major haircut since the group began, with at least 15cms sheared off.
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Post by lamont on Sept 18, 2023 17:07:38 GMT
Was there anything decent seen in the unseen footage of The Movie at the cinema?
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Post by iiwftn on Sept 18, 2023 17:35:14 GMT
Was there anything decent seen in the unseen footage of The Movie at the cinema? There was just a couple of minutes of rehearsal footage pre-film; nothing Earth-shattering but enjoyable to see. The great un-seen treasure trove of additional concert footage remains in the mythical can, stored in a warehouse next to the arc of the covenant. |
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Post by iiwftn on Sept 18, 2023 17:35:51 GMT
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Post by Alan on Sept 18, 2023 17:40:48 GMT
The girls’ hair is the giveaway. Pure 1977. "Agnetha"'s Voyage hair, though, spans between late 1976 all the way to 1979, as she kept that same, basic long hair (with only slight modifications) right up until just before the Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! promo was filmed, when she appeared with her first-ever major haircut since the group began, with at least 15cms sheared off. That’s not quite correct. She did have a shorter style just prior to her son being born in December 1977, and it’s also a bit darker. In the video for Take A Chance on Me it’s still noticeably shorter but gradually grows back so that, by the time of the Summer Night City video, it’s back to pretty much its usual length (and, indeed, colour). Therefore I’d say Agnetha-Tar is also early 1977.  |
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Post by joseph on Sept 18, 2023 18:25:20 GMT
The Voyage AꓭBAtars are absolutely 1977. By 1979 both Agnetha and Frida had hacked their hair off into mumsy short cuts. Big mistake, imo. In ABBA The Movie Frida's hair is actually very long (I spotted it particularly during the Eagle clip). I'm just glad they never went with any perms for the AꓭBAtars!
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Post by jj on Sept 18, 2023 19:47:04 GMT
That’s not quite correct. She did have a shorter style just prior to her son being born in December 1977, and it’s also a bit darker. In the video for Take A Chance on Me it’s still noticeably shorter but gradually grows back so that, by the time of the Summer Night City video, it’s back to pretty much its usual length (and, indeed, colour).
Ah yes, how could I have forgotten! You're right. That famous "presentation of Christian" pic! And yes, Agnetha's hair is also starting to grow out from that cut in the official TACOM promo, which I guess was filmed around February 1978 (?). I could check Sara's ABBA on tv site to get more exact dates, but I can't be *rsed.
Thanks for that reminder, Alan. It also jogged my memory of a wintry scene, in early 1978, on the rooftop of the Dorchester Hotel in London (at least I think that was the venue), where all the group members' eyes look as though they only got out of bed 15 minutes beforehand, especially Agnetha's eyes, and Benny's wearing those godawful boots and Bjorn has on a a stripey jacket. Or maybe their eyes are just watery from a cold wind blowing into their faces. And of course, in that series of pics, Agnetha's hair is still quite a bit shorter than it was right up until, and including, at least the end of the summer of 1977, when they're pictured on a boat and also around Stockholm Harbour on a very bright sunny day. She's pregnant in these last pics, but her hair is still quite long. I think Bjorn, or Agnetha, are wearing a white shirt with the Qantas logo, which we see them wearing over the Australian tour and of course also in The Movie.
I wonder if someone can come up with an estimate of when it was she got that hospital picture haircut. Could it have been just the once, in December 1977? After which she returned to the Agnetha of old until around the time the Gimme! promo clip was filmed.
With just a little bit more research and preparation, I believe I've finally found my special topic for an appearance on Mastermind.
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Post by iiwftn on Sept 18, 2023 21:24:21 GMT
So when Frida is romping around the stage in her element singing ‘Why Did it have to be Me’, I assume Agnetha clocked off for a tea break and a quick ciggie?
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Post by Alan on Sept 18, 2023 21:51:14 GMT
So when Frida is romping around the stage in her element singing ‘Why Did it have to be Me’, I assume Agnetha clocked off for a tea break and a quick ciggie? Her absence is very noticeable, isn’t it? I think there’s only Intermezzo where only Benny is present, but otherwise we see all four. I would hope not a ciggie, but she was quite contradictory on that anyway. Didn’t she supposedly have to give up years before due to tonsillitis? But then she’s seen at public appearances in 1978 and 1981 smoking, and the latter was after she’d been involved in an anti-smoking campaign. The tour finished on 12 March and Christian was born on 4 December. Was he conceived in Australia?? I hadn’t realised that the film takes some liberties, not only with the setlist (songs in different order) but also the order of cities visited. The film has it that it was Sydney, Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne. Apparently it was actually Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth. This makes slightly more sense as presumably a flight from Perth back to Sweden would be slightly shorter than from Melbourne. |
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Post by Alan on Sept 18, 2023 22:08:30 GMT
Hi all, I can't go to see the movie but I want to say that one of the high points for me when I saw it in 1978 was 'Get on the Carousel'. It was a rocker and I loved it so much I was devastated they never released it. When I saw the movie 2 more times in 1978 and about a year or two later one of the reasons I went was to try to memorize the song. I know it was subsumed into Hole in Your Soul .. but still I think it is different and energetic enough to get its own release. Anyone else a fan of it? Martin I’ve always quite liked it. For me it’s completeness (or lack of). We have the other three songs (albeit with different arrangements and in some cases, lyrics) on The Album but not this one. It’s quite a long sequence for this song in the film, so I’m sure they could release the audio and make a decent-length track. I like the drama of it. It takes place after I’m A Marionette and she’s even further lost in this life she thought she wanted but has turned out nothing like she expected (“Well all I really wanna do is get off! It‘s only making me scared! But I don’t really care”). I just found something online where Ludvig Andersson said about the 1977 tour recordings: “It is true that I wanted to see if I could work with some of the Australia 1977 material as well but in terms of recording quality it was unfortunately not up to the standard that we could release.” I think he is referring to the Royal Albert Hall recordings and not the overdubbed Australian stuff that’s in The Movie. The annoying thing about them is that many of the songs aren’t complete in the film, so this makes an audio release unlikely, even if the likes of me would settle for it. Lyrics for The Girl With The Golden Hair, including narration and the partially different lyrics for Thank You For The Music: www.karaoke-lyrics.net/lyrics/abba/the-girl-with-the-golden-hair-mini-muzikal-1061493 |
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Post by Michal on Sept 19, 2023 5:45:25 GMT
So when Frida is romping around the stage in her element singing ‘Why Did it have to be Me’, I assume Agnetha clocked off for a tea break and a quick ciggie? Why Did It Have To Be Me followed by Intermezzo No.1 gave her a necessary break for a costume change before The Girl With The Golden Hair sequence. Frida similarly had two songs for the same purpose - Intermezzo, followed by Thank You For The Music. The same trick was used during the 1979 tour. Agnetha was absent from stage during WDIHTBM and Intermezzo and Frida during Intermezzo and I'm Still Alive. I suppose something similar must have been done during the 1975 tour too but I don't remember the setlist so I can't be sure. But Intermezzo was featured too. |
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mjc
Bronze Member
From Ireland, living in Tokyo.
Posts: 22
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Post by mjc on Sept 19, 2023 5:47:00 GMT
Alan Thank you so much for posting the lyrics. I got Get on the Carousel through YouTube many years ago when videos (or just the sound tracks of videos) were downloadable through Apple Mac's browser Safari by a simple click of a button. Of course this function has long been disabled. Martin |
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Post by Michal on Sept 19, 2023 5:55:02 GMT
Not sure I’d want a true audio release of a 1977 concert. It’s believed to exist, for a Royal Albert Hall show, but I’m so used to how they sound in The Movie that it would probably be a disappointment! Alan, have you heard some of the fan-made amateur recordings from the 1977 tour? I have and they sound surprisingly good. Definitely better than the ones from 1979. So I think that hearing unoverdubbed official recordings wouldn't be a shock. A good example is the officially released live version of I Wonder. There are no overdubs except for Benny's piano solo. And it sounds amazing. Michael Tretow is ashamed of the recording but I really can't see why. They were all too demanding, quality-wise, it seems! Releasing the overdubbed versions from The Movie seems unlikely - there are only three complete songs - He Is Your Brother, I'm A Marionette and Dancing Queen. I guess it would be weird to have a CD with snippets of live recordings. Unless they segued them in some way, like in ABBA Undeleted. I have most of them on bootlegs. |
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Post by evilincarnate on Sept 19, 2023 6:37:43 GMT
I think it's an amalgam of '77 (in terms of their faces and hair) and perhaps '78-'79 regarding the inspiration for the performances/stage costumes (acknowledging that these are updated and exclusive to the 'Voyage' shows). Benny and Bjorn (plus others involved in the production) have consistently referred to 1979 as being the chosen year by all band members, but I think perhaps they have been mistaken in their comments and confused the situation for all of us.  |
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Post by evilincarnate on Sept 19, 2023 6:43:48 GMT
Not sure I’d want a true audio release of a 1977 concert. It’s believed to exist, for a Royal Albert Hall show, but I’m so used to how they sound in The Movie that it would probably be a disappointment! Alan, have you heard some of the fan-made amateur recordings from the 1977 tour? I have and they sound surprisingly good. Definitely better than the ones from 1979. So I think that hearing unoverdubbed official recordings wouldn't be a shock. A good example is the officially released live version of I Wonder. There are no overdubs except for Benny's piano solo. And it sounds amazing. Michael Tretow is ashamed of the recording but I really can't see why. They were all too demanding, quality-wise, it seems! Releasing the overdubbed versions from The Movie seems unlikely - there are only three complete songs - He Is Your Brother, I'm A Marionette and Dancing Queen. I guess it would be weird to have a CD with snippets of live recordings. Unless they segued them in some way, like in ABBA Undeleted. I have most of them on bootlegs. I would hope that maybe the overdubbed live tracks featured during the movie were actually complete takes and then edited down for the film although I concede what others here have suggested, which is that the overdubbing was done in post-production. You never know though - there could be a treasure trove of material yet to be unleashed, particularly if full shows were recorded from the complete Australian tour (but I'm no expert on this). |
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Post by matt on Sept 19, 2023 17:15:02 GMT
According to the updated version of The Complete Recording Sessions, there are a number of mix tapes that survived with full versions of The Movie songs:
Tiger
Waterloo
SOS
Money, Money, Money
He Is Your Brother
When I Kissed The Teacher
Rock Me
Fernando
Why Did It Have To Be Me
Intermezzo No.1
I'm A Marionette (finishes few seconds after the instrumental break begins)
Dancing Queen
The rest were incomplete but there should be full versions on the master multi-tracks.
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Post by Michal on Sept 19, 2023 19:09:06 GMT
According to the updated version of The Complete Recording Sessions, there are a number of mix tapes that survived with full versions of The Movie songs Have we read the same book? If I remember it correctly, there was exactly the opposite information - only the parts featured in The Movie were overdubbed, not complete songs. |
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Post by Michal on Sept 19, 2023 19:16:39 GMT
...particularly if full shows were recorded from the complete Australian tour (but I'm no expert on this). Full shows were recorded but only the parts featured in The Movie were overdubbed. |
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Post by Alan on Sept 19, 2023 19:18:34 GMT
If I remember it correctly, there was exactly the opposite information - only the parts featured in The Movie were overdubbed, not complete songs. Yes, this is more as I remember it. I want Matt to be right but I somehow think you are. It’s similar with the 1979 stuff isn’t it, in terms of visuals. Only what’s in that tour film still exists. Some info about the 1977 tour, including recordings of it, along with Ludvig’s comments that it’s not up to the standard they’d want to release: www.abba-theconcerts.de/1977.html |
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Post by Michal on Sept 19, 2023 19:50:24 GMT
I've just realized there are at least two songs that don't appear in The Movie as full performances but were completely overdubbed - Fernando and Money, Money, Money. Both were released on ABBA Live album but they must have been overdubbed in 1977. So there is some hope 🙂
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Post by matt on Sept 19, 2023 20:05:59 GMT
Pages 261-62 provides details/length of the recordings that survive on the mix tapes:
He Is Your Brother - 04.41
Why Did It Have To Be Me - 04.08
Waterloo - 02.48
Money, Money, Money - 03.14 (Released on 1986 Live Album)
Rock Me - 02.56
Intermezzo No.1 - 03.13
Fernando - 03.59 + 01.28 for audience sing-a-long (Released on 1986 Live Album)
Tiger - 03.26
SOS - 03.29
When I Kissed The Teacher - 03.20
I've Been Waiting For You - 02.33 (incomplete - starts at end of first verse like in The Movie)
Get On The Carousel - 04.54 + 0.51 (mono mix - but fairly complete except for reprise of I Wonder and Marionette which vocals are off-mike)
So Long - 03.27 (incomplete - 1 minute into mix and jumps to section heard in The Movie)
Mamma Mia - 02.14 (incomplete mono mix - starts at end of 1st verse but vocals only from 2nd verse)
I'm A Marionette - 02.53 - ends 5 seconds into instrumental section
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Post by evilincarnate on Sept 20, 2023 0:39:19 GMT
Thanks for the update Matt.
How I long for the overdubbed versions of "S.O.S." and "I've Been Waiting For You" to be officially released in their entirety. I adore Agnetha's slightly improvised vocals on these two tracks.
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Post by iiwftn on Sept 22, 2023 8:31:03 GMT
Was Bjorn’s amp actually on during these concerts? Or was his guitar more of an accessory? I noticed during, say Dancing Queen that he kind of floats in and out of playing. Was the rhythm track purely left to the other fellas in the band? I assume Benny’s piano playing was more key to the live sound.
Also, how did the post-production ‘tidying up’ process work? Did they record more polished live versions in rehearsals and use them as overdubs to match the footage?
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Post by Michal on Sept 24, 2023 14:05:58 GMT
Pages 261-62 provides details/length of the recordings that survive on the mix tapes: He Is Your Brother - 04.41 Why Did It Have To Be Me - 04.08 Waterloo - 02.48 Money, Money, Money - 03.14 (Released on 1986 Live Album) Rock Me - 02.56 Intermezzo No.1 - 03.13 Fernando - 03.59 + 01.28 for audience sing-a-long (Released on 1986 Live Album) Tiger - 03.26 SOS - 03.29 When I Kissed The Teacher - 03.20 I've Been Waiting For You - 02.33 (incomplete - starts at end of first verse like in The Movie) Get On The Carousel - 04.54 + 0.51 (mono mix - but fairly complete except for reprise of I Wonder and Marionette which vocals are off-mike) So Long - 03.27 (incomplete - 1 minute into mix and jumps to section heard in The Movie) Mamma Mia - 02.14 (incomplete mono mix - starts at end of 1st verse but vocals only from 2nd verse) I'm A Marionette - 02.53 - ends 5 seconds into instrumental section I checked the passage in the book and to me it seems that at least some of these mixes are not the final ones. In case of He Is Your Brother and Mamma Mia the mixes are described as featuring only Frida, Benny and Björn with Agnetha being almost inaudible (she was not present in the studio for the overdubs probably because of her pregnancy). But you can hear her vocals in The Movie. So question marks remain. I would like to have the original unoverdubbed recordings (it they survived in the vaults), even if they were from different concerts. There were eleven to choose from, so I guess they would be able to find a decent recording of every song performed. |
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Post by Michal on Sept 24, 2023 14:12:53 GMT
If I remember it correctly, there was exactly the opposite information - only the parts featured in The Movie were overdubbed, not complete songs. It’s similar with the 1979 stuff isn’t it, in terms of visuals. Only what’s in that tour film still exists. I think you're right. They filmed only the songs that they wanted to include in the ABBA In Concert TV special. There might be some additional material but it's not edited. And probably there's not enough to make something satisfactory out of it. Thank You For The Music, which they edited for the DVD reissue of ABBA In Concert, clearly shows that it would be extremely difficult, if not completely impossible. |
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Post by Alan on Sept 24, 2023 15:40:29 GMT
From that link I posted earlier in the topic:
“Some short video footage does exist and circulates at Youtube, showing snippets of and around the concerts, mainly recorded by TV stations.
According to Lasse Hallström in the interview on ABBA The Movie Limited Edition all Australian concerts were filmed with five cameras each, one steadycam on stage and four cameras on tripods. How much additional material has survived after the movie was finished is not clear.
”Official recordings of ten Australian concerts exist according to Ludvig Andersson:
“…a while ago we sat down and talked, Mia (Segolsson) and I at Universal. We talked about the fact that there was quite a lot of live material, which I thought sounded fun, so I asked if I could have it so that I could go through it. It really was a lot – ten concerts from Australia”
“There is also a live recording of the February 14 Royal Albert Hall concert (in 2014 a snippet was announced for a digital release, but it didn’t happen).
Ludvig:
“One of the shows was also recorded on 24-track tape by a London production company called La Maison Rouge, founded by prog band Jethro Tull. Intriguingly, on the tape box the client was listed as Atlantic Records, suggesting that the recording was made to give ABBA’s American record company a flavour of what they were like as a live act. With no apparent involvement by Michael B. Tretow, the engineers were Maison Rouge-employees Robin Black and Trevor White, and the producer was Dave Dee [...] It is not known whether this recording was ever mixed down“
“In an interwiew in January 2019 Benny’s son Ludvig Andersson said that the 1977 live material wasn’t as good as the 1979 Wembley recordings:
Ludvig:
“It is true that I wanted to see if I could work with some of the Australia 1977 material as well but in terms of recording quality it was unfortunately not up to the standard that we could release.“
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