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Post by lamont on Jun 24, 2023 10:05:31 GMT
I was slightly disappointed with DSMD, I saw it last year and thought it was jaded, this year I took particular attention to the performance again and it does seem like a ‘new’ song in a show where the band don’t really know how to present it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2023 18:47:40 GMT
^ I wouldn't be surprised if ABBA didn't know how to present DSMD.
The verses are quite theatrical but the chorus is very poppy
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Post by voyage2 on Jun 24, 2023 22:24:58 GMT
Didn't someone mention that DSMD is missing the strings? For me, they are absolutely crucial to the mix.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 5:43:40 GMT
Is it simply the structure of the song, part musical/theattical (in the verse) more uptempp pop (in the chorus)?
How did other lesser known songs go down - SNC, Eagle, WAISAD?
I'm guessing SNC was well received. Eagle a bit muted. The mystery is WAISAD.
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Post by HOMETIME on Jun 25, 2023 10:22:58 GMT
[...] whilst WAISAD is one of the personal highlights for me it got a more muted reception on my second visit. But they must keep it on the set list as it's fab. [...] TV and WAISAD are the performances I'm most looking forward to. I've heard great things about how beautifully done WAISAD is in the show too. I think it could nice a nice/practical/fan-pleasing strategy to release this as a single. It was a respected single in some territories back in the day and, now that it's quite different to the album version, it has some novelty value too. Might there even be scope to blend scenes from the video with some footage from the show for a promo video? A video that would pop the show back into the public consciousness in a slightly different way?
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Post by evilincarnate on Jun 25, 2023 10:35:33 GMT
[...] whilst WAISAD is one of the personal highlights for me it got a more muted reception on my second visit. But they must keep it on the set list as it's fab. [...] TV and WAISAD are the performances I'm most looking forward to. I've heard great things about how beautifully done WAISAD is in the show too. I think it could nice a nice/practical/fan-pleasing strategy to release this as a single. It was a respected single in some territories back in the day and, now that it's quite different to the album version, it has some novelty value too. Might there even be scope to blend scenes from the video with some footage from the show for a promo video? A video that would pop the show back into the public consciousness in a slightly different way? Same here - these are definitely the two inclusions that excite me the most. I'm so glad that deep cuts such as these have been represented in amongst the hits. If some tracks need to be removed, I'd be looking in the direction of "Thank You For The Music", "Does Your Mother Know" and "Don't Shut Me Down", plus of course the two anime clips.
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Post by evilincarnate on Jun 25, 2023 10:46:06 GMT
I'm not sure it's a matter of Abba not knowing how to present DSMD. It's not a video. I agree that DSMD did not go down as well with the crowd as the hits and ISHFIU and although DSMD is my favourite track from the Voyage album something is lacking that I can't put my finger on. Maybe it's that the hits sell themselves, and the Visitors and HIYS are the first 2 songs so the audience is just in awe of what they are seeing. So by the time a lesser known song like DSMD comes on it has to be spectacular which it isn't. ISHFIU has the advantage of being such a personal song about the band that the audience is taken in by the emotion of it all. I've seen the show twice and ISHFIU went down better both times than DSMD. I can put my finger on it... "I Still Have Faith In You" is the superior track and definitely resonates on a personal level with many - even those who wouldn't have necessarily chosen to hear it are inexplicably moved by the emotion encapsulated in this magnificent song. It's a great statement regarding these four individuals, beautifully composed and features an incredible vocal performance from Frida. It stands up extremely well against the well-known hits because it's a thing of beauty. "Don't Shut Me Down" is fine as a studio recording and better than we could have possibly expected after all these years, but it doesn't have sufficient currency in a show such as 'Voyage'. The only way its inclusion could be justified/salvaged is if some incredibly spectacular visuals were provided as an accompaniment or rather, distraction, to keep the punters interested. Sometimes life hurts. PS I'm just listening to the 'Voyage' album for the umpteenth time and it's as great as ever. Love it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 11:27:46 GMT
I certainly think ISHFIY is a more complete song than DSMD. The latter, to me has a great catchy chorus , one with lyrics and music added in to make up verses. I really can't see it being pulled from the show - not one of the two new songs.
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Post by HOMETIME on Jun 25, 2023 11:37:17 GMT
Yep, I'd happily shelve DYMK and TYFTM in favour of tunes like TACOM, ST, MMM, TNOTG etc. Can't see TYFTM ever being removed, though, given its signature tune status. I think the two newest songs have setlist longevity built in to them by dint of their plot-twist role in ABBA's history. That chorus on DSMD is where the magic happens: it was the moment where, YESSS!!, the classic/trademark ABBA third-voice sound was presented again after so long. Especially the second chorus, on the key-change. Can't imagine how it works without the strings, but I'm cheering for its continued inclusion for now.
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Post by evilincarnate on Jun 25, 2023 12:29:16 GMT
Yep, I'd happily shelve DYMK and TYFTM in favour of tunes like TACOM, ST, MMM, TNOTG etc. Can't see TYFTM ever being removed, though, given its signature tune status. I think the two newest songs have setlist longevity built in to them by dint of their plot-twist role in ABBA's history. That chorus on DSMD is where the magic happens: it was the moment where, YESSS!!, the classic/trademark ABBA third-voice sound was presented again after so long. Especially the second chorus, on the key-change. Can't imagine how it works without the strings, but I'm cheering for its continued inclusion for now. I certainly understand your position but "Don't Shut Me Down", as great as the chorus is, borders on being perfunctory in the midst of such lofty company within the 'Voyage' show. With the strings gone, that's a sizeable chunk of its charm instantly eradicated. One option up their sleeve is to swap "Don't Shut Me Down" with one of the two unreleased 'Voyage' outtakes that may be released within the next twelve months. If all four members agree that either of these songs pass the requisite quality control standards, it could happen.
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Post by jon on Jun 25, 2023 13:35:16 GMT
Some observations of where the voyage show could be changed around.
Hole in your Soul- not an instantly recognisable Abba song- could replace with ST or MMM Does your Mother Know- to keep the part where the Band have a song they can perform, there must be another they can sing instead, I have a dream, I do I do ? The Video animations- to echo an earlier comment think that VV would be much better as an abbatar performance. Add TACOM somewhere towards end of the show.
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Post by Alan on Jun 25, 2023 14:01:57 GMT
One option up their sleeve is to swap "Don't Shut Me Down" with one of the two unreleased 'Voyage' outtakes that may be released within the next twelve months. If all four members agree that either of these songs pass the requisite quality control standards, it could happen. I think that’s very unlikely. For starters, the real ABBA would not have been able to perform either of these songs in their motion-capture outfits*. Secondly, if there are four unused performances, these would be far more likely to be added. I also think it’s highly unlikely Don’t Shut Me Down would be removed as it was written for the show and its double-meaning lyrics even refer to the ABBATars. I’m starting to wonder if Russell T Davies bigged it up to Catherine Tate (let’s face it, he’s good at that) and she in turn may have enhanced it. I certainly wouldn’t put money on these two songs definitely getting a release, let alone being included in the show. [* It remains uncertain just how important these performances really were to the finished project, particularly as we know that body doubles then took over and enhanced the dance moves, but I would still prefer to see performances that the real ABBA were originally involved in]. Oh… Don’t Shut Me Down without strings? I don’t remember it like that, though granted, I’ve only seen it the once and that was 13 months ago, but I’m sure I would have noticed at the time if it sounded much different to the record?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 16:28:36 GMT
I am very happy with the Setlist. I would only replace one song and switch the order round of two songs that are back to back.
Here is the Setlist:
The Visitors
Hole in Your Soul
SOS
Knowing Me Knowing You
Chiquitita
Fernando
Mamma Mia
Does Your Mother Know
Eagle
Lay All Your Love On Me
Summer Night City
Gimme Gimme Gimme
Voulez Vous
When All is Said and Done
Don't Shut Me Down
I Still Have Faith in You
Waterloo
Dancing Queen
Thank you for the Music
The Winner Takes it All
Opening: Gteat dramatic starter. That it is not well known is not so important as I imagine crowd getting heads round what they are seeing and hearing.
Like Jon, I think the next track needs to be a biggie. I would opt for TACOM.
I would imagine the show doesn't really kick off til SOS as far as most in the audience are concerned. But then it's the non-ABBAtar KMKY. A more familar song as secobd song is needed in this opening section.
We then get to 3 big hits as ABBAtars then the band on DYMK before another animation.
We move into the Disco section - LAYLOM, SNC, GGG and VV. I imagine that gets the crowd dancing.
Then we have I call the Relationship songs. WAISAD - a clear break up. DSMD, pleading for a renion and ISHFIY - confirming a renuion.
I woild then have TYFTM as the video song befoee ending with 3 of ABBA's biggest hits, Waterloo and Dancing Queen real bangers for the fans and ending in The Winner Takes it All.
Slow songs can be good finishers if they are refectice and poignant. Fleetwood Mac used to do this with Songbird.
Finally, I think a bit of consensus about DSMD - the chorus is the best part, and no, it won't be replaced.
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Post by abbafanie on Jun 25, 2023 16:49:09 GMT
I think Does Your Mother Know and Don't Shut Me Down are pretty secure in Voyage - not only in their inclusion on the setlist, but in their current positions - as they tie into spoken segments from the avatars.
I do think adding to the show is the way forward for any future changes, rather than swapping out. I understand timing constraints etc., but adding one/two songs won't bloat the runtime too much.
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Post by lamont on Jun 25, 2023 17:44:59 GMT
For me in DSMD, there is very little movement from the ladies or interaction with each other, or with the audience. I think by recollection they do a little spin into the chorus, but then they just stand still, that’s where I mean by jaded. It’s a real favourite of mine, but it does seem like a ‘new’ song, where ISHFWY there is a lot of interaction within the group as you can see in video.
What I did really like as Frida punching the air in both The Visitors and ISHFIY, typical Frida I thought!
I’ve said it before, I think the show would be amazing in a VR headset. My nephew has one, and I’ve played Star Wars etc, and the show would just be at home there, it would recoup some costs too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 22:48:02 GMT
I understand your points Lamont/Lycka about the lack of movement, apparently, in DSMD But how could you have much movement in the verses, wouldn't it be a bit monologue(dare I say "theathrical") ie The Day Before You Came-ish? Does the movement pick up with the vibrant, "Classic Abba" chorus? And if it does, it would seem odd, only to revert to type when the chorus ended. My interpretation, but for sure can tell you next week when I see it. I can put my finger on it... . But maybe, Evilincarnate, who lives the opposite of the world, and has not seen the show can "put his finger on it" again...or maybe not. He doesn't take offence to this, I'm sure.
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Post by evilincarnate on Jun 26, 2023 15:43:23 GMT
One option up their sleeve is to swap "Don't Shut Me Down" with one of the two unreleased 'Voyage' outtakes that may be released within the next twelve months. If all four members agree that either of these songs pass the requisite quality control standards, it could happen. I think that’s very unlikely. For starters, the real ABBA would not have been able to perform either of these songs in their motion-capture outfits*. Secondly, if there are four unused performances, these would be far more likely to be added. I also think it’s highly unlikely Don’t Shut Me Down would be removed as it was written for the show and its double-meaning lyrics even refer to the ABBATars. I’m starting to wonder if Russell T Davies bigged it up to Catherine Tate (let’s face it, he’s good at that) and she in turn may have enhanced it. I certainly wouldn’t put money on these two songs definitely getting a release, let alone being included in the show. [* It remains uncertain just how important these performances really were to the finished project, particularly as we know that body doubles then took over and enhanced the dance moves, but I would still prefer to see performances that the real ABBA were originally involved in]. Oh… Don’t Shut Me Down without strings? I don’t remember it like that, though granted, I’ve only seen it the once and that was 13 months ago, but I’m sure I would have noticed at the time if it sounded much different to the record? Alan, I concede that what you say is more than likely but given that the 'Voyage' show contains a robust round of hits, if one were to deselect the weaker moments, in my opinion, "Don't Shut Me Down" (in its current form), would be ripe for an axing. To reiterate, I think the song is mighty fine (despite the obvious manipulation and contrivances) but it doesn't seem to translate well in the context of a concert (even a faux iteration). Strings or no strings (based on what others have reported), the track seems rather leaden in comparison to the frenzy of sleek and bouncy beats offered elsewhere. When it comes to their supreme Nordic balladry, "I Still Have Faith In You" nestles in rather comfortably alongside the most dramatic and touching of their back catalogue - i.e. a true modern day classic. However, song quality aside, I think the real issue is what others have described in terms of actual performance - it's just not that much of a thrill. For example, "The Day Before You Came" is just about their finest moment in my opinion, but whether this would translate to the stage - particularly within this particular show - is doubtful. In truth, I don't think it would resonate and its inherent beauty would be lost on the masses - it's simply not an arena song. For the avid and committed listener, the intricacies of "Don't Shut Me Down" (beyond the pop bombast) are captivating, but whether this translates well in a live context is another matter entirely. Perhaps if the verses were sped up to better complement the chorus, it might be a contender but the juxtaposition of verse and chorus is maybe a step too far for the average punter. Of course, the other obvious consideration is that the audience hasn't had forty odd years to cherish the wizardry of the layered harmonies and swirling gorgeousness so it simply can't compete with even the pub-rock/disco-lite emptiness of "Does Your Mother Know". And yet, "I Still Have Faith In You" can... Alan, I also acknowledge that the multi-purpose lyric in "Don't Shut Me Down" lends itself extremely well to the concept of the 'Voyage' show, and the band's reconvening, but it's simply no match for the nostalgia and emotion that "I Still Have Faith In You" conjures - from even the hardest of hearts. Yep, I also agree that the comments made by Tate on radio could be misleading and that nothing may come of this lead - it could be a misunderstanding or a total beat-up - who knows? However, I don't think the band is quite done yet. Whether that means a track or two - or even another album - is subject to conjecture and of course, wishful thinking on my part, old fool that I am, but if something new were to materialise, I would wager an Agnetha-licked dixie cup that it would be included in the show. As grumpy as the old bear is, Benny believes in the relevancy of new tracks accompanying a concert. Odd given the forty year span between drinks but he seems steeped in the old fashioned cycle of new work/concert promotion - never mind that the whole narrative has most definitely been turned on its arse in recent years. With regard to the motion capture and its correlation to what eventuates on stage, I would daresay that the actual members will no longer be required going forward. At most, close-ups of them miming any new tracks would be sufficient - technology and young bods would fill in the blanks. Not my preference, but simply pragmatism at play. On signing off, I must say that it never ceases to amuse me how the ignorant among us believe they have a portal into others' lives - what they think they know about someone else's circumstances or activities is often baseless and reflective of low-level perception. Ultimately, one can't be offended by the limited comprehension of bullies. After all, they pay the ultimate price - dumb is forever.
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Post by Alan on Jun 26, 2023 16:53:51 GMT
Is Don’t Shut Me Down the last performance with them in their Tron outfits? I was really looking forward to this one as there had been no proper video for it, and the Tron costumes were so familiar from day one of the album campaign back in the September.
Would it have worked better if it was the first one in those costumes, or earlier in the show? The two new songs are together way down the setlist, with only four big hitters below them. I wonder if DSMD would have been better much earlier on so that the audience is still warming up?
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Post by HOMETIME on Jun 26, 2023 17:29:13 GMT
It's kinda curious that the performance of a new song seems so low on energy. I know I've yet to see the show - and I could well be moved by its simplicity - but I'm guessing it's slightly out of kilter with the design of other performances?
I read @lyka's comparison of DSMD and KMKY but I'm not sure I agree. The verses in KMKY are the very model of efficiency: the first verse is 25 words in total, and BVs arrive half way through. DSMD has a more meandering melody and is much wordier. More like Just Like That in so many respects. With that amount of storytelling to do, there's a risk that the performance could become some kind of daft interpretive dance/semaphore situation. But with all those screens and the technological doohickery at their disposal, I'm surprised there are no video vignettes going on behind the ABBAtars.
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Post by evilincarnate on Jun 26, 2023 17:34:13 GMT
Is Don’t Shut Me Down the last performance with them in their Tron outfits? I was really looking forward to this one as there had been no proper video for it, and the Tron costumes were so familiar from day one of the album campaign back in the September. Would it have worked better if it was the first one in those costumes, or earlier in the show? The two new songs are together way down the setlist, with only four big hitters below them. I wonder if DSMD would have been better much earlier on so that the audience is still warming up? I believe "Don't Shut Me Down" is performed in the same outfits as donned in the "I Still Have Faith In You" video - with the ladies in the silver glomesh-like dresses (I tend to recall that the Tron outfits end with "Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!"). The two 'Voyage' songs follow one another in the show, hence the lack of costume change, and I think this is a mistake. I definitely think "Don't Shut Me Down" would benefit from appearing earlier in the set-list - maybe four or five songs in, with a more energised choreography? I'm sure this has already been raised but on another point, the Agnetha-leads do seem to outweigh Frida's, which is surprising given how the boys always made a concerted effort in the past to evenly split the lead vocals on albums - right up to 'Voyage'. The omission (to date) of "Super Trouper" and "Money, Money, Money" - even "I Have A Dream" (which I don't actually wish to be included) is quite obvious, particularly since they were all sizeable hits. I wonder if Frida's hips were giving her trouble during the motion capture sessions and more work is required to bring these tracks to fruition? We suspect these were recorded (at least "Money, Money, Money" and "Super Trouper", as well as "Take A Chance On Me") so maybe mobility issues play a factor in their exclusion? I'm sure this will be rectified in the future.
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Post by Alan on Jun 26, 2023 17:43:35 GMT
Thanks evilincarnate. I think I wanted DSMD to be in the Tron outfits and remembered it wrong. Hasn’t Money Money Money been ruled out? I don’t think ABBA even did that one. Something about it not being the right kind of song for the show? Not sure how they came to that conclusion.
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Post by evilincarnate on Jun 26, 2023 22:52:36 GMT
Thanks evilincarnate . I think I wanted DSMD to be in the Tron outfits and remembered it wrong. Hasn’t Money Money Money been ruled out? I don’t think ABBA even did that one. Something about it not being the right kind of song for the show? Not sure how they came to that conclusion. Yes I think Benny had mentioned at some stage that "Money, Money, Money" may not have been appropriate but then during the recent one year anniversary press junket around the show, he and Bjorn talked about a few of the surplus songs that were recorded during the motion capture sessions and I believe this track was mentioned.
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Post by lamont on Jun 27, 2023 13:53:41 GMT
The whole show is dynamic and full of energy, DSMD reminds me of Kylie singing Can’t Get You Out Of My Head on her On A Night Like This tour, it was premiered as a new song and it’s Kylie bopping along with a guitarist alongside her, it was 9 months before it’s single release and it seemed empty, like DSMD. Every song on Voyage show has its own unique stamp, DSMD is just an anti climax to me.
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Post by Michel on Jun 27, 2023 19:54:38 GMT
If I remember correctly, during the entire DSMD performance the ABBATars are behind a see-through screen. Perhaps that makes it a little harder to connect with the performance as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2023 22:17:46 GMT
I haven't seen the show yet so can't comment on the performsnces or receptiom of DSMD vs ISHFIY
But I will pick up on points made by Evilincarnate - which I agree on.
He mentioned The Day Before You Came which to his and many ABBA fans is a brilliant song but it may not translate to a concert. He also stressed the difference between the verses and chorus of DSMD which are totally different - and the more "casual" ie majority fan may not get.
I totally understand. I have mentioned a few times, in my opinion, DSMD is is a hybrid between The Day Before You Came'ish (in the verse) and as usually accepted the very uptempo "typical ABBA" chorus.
Why is ISHFIY so apparently better received, despite being less poppy?
Maybe, it"s more a complete song. Frida's emotional vocals in the verses versus Agnetha's pededestrian "storytelling" sing-speak in the verses.
And perhaps the music in ISHFIY is more complex and varied than DSMD.
Maybe the monotone storytelling verses of DSMD, combined without any whistle and a bells is a factor in the audience preferring ISHFIY to DSMD.
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Post by richard on Jun 28, 2023 11:25:10 GMT
I'm not referring to ABBA's songs in relation to the Voyage show, just as songs in their own right. But on the subject of sections of a song not 'matching up' somehow, that's a very subjective, even contentious, issue, of course. Musically, the verses and choruses of KMKY are very different, for example. (I suppose I ought to say "in my opinion", even though I regard it as objective fact. 😀 ). It's called contrast - a common feature of what I regard of many of the best pop songs I've heard.
I guess it boils down to whether or not someone thinks the contrasting sections of a song still have an 'organic' feel about them in relation to the song as a whole. Mentioning our old friend JLT yet again, for some while now I haven't thought there's this grating disjunction between the verses and choruses: it's that the arrangement of those verses, as far as I'm concerned, aren't done very well, including that guitar riff, which I find draggy and uninspired.
I think DSMD does have that kind organic integrity. And I'm with those who regard it as right up there with the legendary pop-y ABBA we love. It's just that, for me, it doesn't have quite the 'zip and zap' which, I suggest - including in terms of the arrangement - it would've had if it had been recorded a few years before it was.
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Post by gazman on Jun 28, 2023 17:17:47 GMT
Is it a myth that the two animation ones are there to allow the avatar generators to cool down? I’d like to think there was something in that, as it would then justify their inclusion (but would also mean they’re the least likely to be swapped). Yes, it's a myth - in so far as Svana Gisla said no songs are placed in order to cool down the set. She was asked the question in a Fan Club forum. The Shynola elements were purposely placed, and apparently popular with younger visitors. I do not think these will be swapped out in exchange for 'avatar' performances.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2023 21:19:09 GMT
Just seen the show. Mad rush back to getvmy train home.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2023 11:03:43 GMT
I have written a review on a new thread. Maybe have a separate thread for people's reviews?
Looking at the demographics of the crowd I would say...
98% White 80% Middle aged plus 60% female
Social Groups, in order 1. Opposite sex couples 2. Female friends (maybe sone couples( 3. Families (older children or adult children) 4. Male couples or male friends. 5. Groups of Lads. Infact none I'd say!
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Post by Sindy on Jul 4, 2023 15:01:59 GMT
Eagle and VV anime are probably used as unofficial intermissions so people can use the lavatories. I am expecting the lesser known tracks to be replaced in time with ST, TACOM and MMM, as they are playing the long game with this show.
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