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Post by johnny on Nov 10, 2023 15:09:12 GMT
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Post by Alan on Nov 10, 2023 16:20:51 GMT
The Beatles’ single has been released in multiple formats which must have helped? I think I read 7” black, 7” blue, 7” blue/white marbled, 10”, 12” and CD.
Don’t Shut Me Down only got a CD, with I Still Have Faith In You an additional 7”. More variants may have helped them? (There were, I think, about 23 different variants of the Voyage album with eventually ten on vinyl alone). I’d have definitely bought other variants of the first two singles had there been any.
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Post by johnny on Nov 10, 2023 17:07:52 GMT
Good point Alan.
I also think when the two Voyage songs were released the focus was the forthcoming album and show. The singles were presented as freebies to stream now. There was very little mention of CD versions or the vinyl version for ISHFIY
So it's official The Beatles are #1
#1 UK
#1 Germany
#4 Ireland
#4 Netherlands
#6 Australia
#8 Sweden
#47 Finland
#52 Italy
Not in NZ Top 50
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Post by HOMETIME on Nov 10, 2023 18:55:15 GMT
The Beatles’ single has been released in multiple formats which must have helped? I think I read 7” black, 7” blue, 7” blue/white marbled, 10”, 12” and CD. Don’t Shut Me Down only got a CD, with I Still Have Faith In You an additional 7”. More variants may have helped them? (There were, I think, about 23 different variants of the Voyage album with eventually ten on vinyl alone). I’d have definitely bought other variants of the first two singles had there been any. I know we had 25 versions of the album to fork out for, but I still think the single releases were fumbled. With all that footage at their disposal and a show to promote, it is bonkers that DSMD didn't get a video. Just A Notion and No Doubt About It should have had videos too. Commit, dammit!! I was in the newly (re)opened HMV in Dublin at the weekend and there were multiple versions of The Beatles' single. I'm surprised to only have heard a snippet of it on radio here. I kinda thought it'd be a staple on the airwaves - especially the bloke-ier shows. But no. The BBC Sounds app no longer works in Ireland, so I wonder if it's getting the expected rotation on Radio 2? Thanks for the chart info johnny - what's the betting it'll be doing less well next week? |
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Post by johnny on Nov 10, 2023 19:10:45 GMT
"Thanks for the chart info johnny - what's the betting it'll be doing less well next week?"
Rhetorical question 😀
The focus switches to the re-releases of The Red Album (1962-66) and The Blue Album.(1967-70). Both have expanded tracklists, the former really needed it as it missed out some great tracks.
Both these albums are much better than the one CD "1" album. The first 10 tracks or so all sound samey like different versions of I Want To Hold Your Hand.
The Beatles recorded many fine songs that were never singles - hence two double albums of their 7 to 8 years together.
I think ABBA would be hard pressed to come up with two double albums for their best songs that would appeal to those who weren't ardent, hardcore fans.
These re-released albums are to mark the 50th anniversary of their release. I wonder what ABBA will do next year for the 50th anniversary of Waterloo?
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Post by johnny on Nov 10, 2023 20:41:35 GMT
"The last ABBA song ever" is likely to be a song or infact the two unreleased Voyage songs.
That they weren't even on Voyage is not a good omen.
"Now and Then" recorded in 1978 was not included in either Double Fantasy from 1980 or the follow up out take album Milk and Honey.
Scraping the barrel. In fairness ABBA did this with Just a Notion.
Clearly The Beatles have better PR. Their fanbase is arguably not as wide (or casual) as ABBA's (Gold, Mamna Mia! movies, Voyage show) but undoubtedly, deeper.
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Post by Alan on Nov 10, 2023 22:52:47 GMT
I know we had 25 versions of the album to fork out for I originally put 25 in my post but then changed it to 23! 10 vinyl, 6 cassette, 8 CD, so 24 (I could have missed one though). |
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Post by Alan on Nov 11, 2023 10:41:27 GMT
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Post by Alan on Nov 11, 2023 11:16:33 GMT
"Now and Then" recorded in 1978 was not included in either Double Fantasy from 1980 or the follow up out take album Milk and Honey. Scraping the barrel. It’s also interesting that these blue/red album reissues don’t include Free As A Bird or Real Love. They are the tracks most closely related to Now and Then. It’s almost like they’ve had to find a home for this “new” song, whereas the other two already have one with the 1990s Anthology issues. It’s as though they’re embarrassed by them and aren’t going to let them out again. The Beatles released 12 studio albums and another two albums’ worth of non-album singles and b-sides. These new double album reissues (triple for vinyl) must include around 40% of their entire catalogue or more? |
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Post by chron on Nov 11, 2023 15:50:51 GMT
It’s also interesting that these blue/red album reissues don’t include Free As A Bird or Real Love. They are the tracks most closely related to Now and Then. It’s almost like they’ve had to find a home for this “new” song, whereas the other two already have one with the 1990s Anthology issues. It’s as though they’re embarrassed by them and aren’t going to let them out again. There might be a bit of 'craftsmanship' embarrassment - Lennon's strong and 'present' AI extracted/spruced up vocals on Now And Then point-up how weedy and wraithlike the equivalent cassette-derived vox are on Free As A Bird and Real Love (although I like the ghostliness of the effect; it seems apt), but I reckon leaving the latter two off 1967-1970 is more about trying to stay true to the job that the original 'Red' and 'Blue' compilations did/do. The latest track is a token inclusion; making a three song sequence out of FAAB, Real Love and Now And Then at the end of '67-'70 would risk giving a distorted picture of the Beatles' working career. The blend and balance of what we get seems right: all the hit singles plus three or four key tracks from each of their albums (the reissues afford an expanded selection), and one nod in the direction of the reconvened/partial Beatles. A nod suffices. As you say, the other two newer tracks (which at this point are nearly thirty years old—at the time they first came out the break-up of the Beatles had happened 'only' twenty-five years earlier!) are on Anthology sets, which will surely get the remaster/reissue treatment in a couple of years. |
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Post by chron on Nov 11, 2023 16:40:03 GMT
(They might attempt an AI clean-up job on John's vocals on FAAB and Real Love for the anniversary Anthologies, presuming those get done. Someone's already done their own AI scrub-up of Free As A Bird, which gives Lennon equal vocal weight and presence to thrilling effect, and makes the track seem far more a proper, collective group effort. I can actually make out what he's singing now! I'd never properly caught the "Like a homing bird I'll fly" line before, and had never bothered to check what the lyrics were on the various lyrics sites.)
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Post by chron on Nov 11, 2023 17:01:51 GMT
"Now and Then" recorded in 1978 was not included in either Double Fantasy from 1980 or the follow up out take album Milk and Honey. Scraping the barrel. In fairness ABBA did this with Just a Notion. To be fair to them, with two band members dead and gone, Paul and Ringo's hands were far more tied than ABBA's. It's not a great with a capital G Beatle track (although that simple, plaintive verse melody is maddeningly hooky; it was replaying itself in my head after a single play-through), but it's still a touching listen. Have you heard the version that someone's put together that (re)incorporates the bridge section that featured in John's original demo? It adds a lot (comes in at about the two minute mark): |
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Post by mymamasaid on Nov 12, 2023 22:12:25 GMT
I think that technology is only just beginning to expand what is possible. The Beatles release and the Voyage Show being prime examples. The Price vault has hours and hours and hours of unreleased stuff...
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Post by johnny on Nov 13, 2023 17:57:42 GMT
Against my expectations Now and Then is #1 on the UK Update chart.
In the albums, the Blue album 67/70 is #1, the Red album 62/66 is #2 and a box set of both is #9.
Good marketing and loyal fanbase.
It enters American chart at #7.
Edit: Red album #2
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Post by gary on Nov 13, 2023 23:52:28 GMT
^
Both albums at number one?
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Post by johnny on Nov 14, 2023 10:58:54 GMT
Typo. Red Album at #2
Despite very high chart positions sales are very low. I guess Beatles fans already have these and as Alan pointed out a few times no need for compilations in the age of streaming.
Perhaps DSMD and ISHFIY only getting to 9 and 14 not so bad after all - people bought Voyage in huge numbers. And buying it not streaming it.
What I have noticed about Voyage (album) and the new Beatles song is just how big the world is and how localised their success.
Both concentrated on North + West Europe - Scandinavia, Benelux, Switxerland/Austria, UK/Ireland, USA/Canada, Australia, less so NZ
Very little success in Southern Europe, Eastern Europe, Latin America, Asia, Africa.
We're just looking at 3 big music markets - US, UK, Germany and 8 to 10 other markets.
As for Now and Then I like it more than I did - but it's still very average.
The video is rather creepy. I don't mind footage of Paul and Ringo now or George and John then - acting and dressed normally. But all of them together playing now looks odd. The Sergent Pepper costume George in particular wears is just so ridiculous. It is not very flattering to George or John. George is that costume and John acting the clown and looking an idiot.
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Post by johnny on Nov 14, 2023 20:22:45 GMT
Top 10 placings of Now and Then
#1 Austria
#1 Germany
#1 United Kingdom
#2 Switzerland
#4 Ireland
#5 Netherlands
#6 Australia
#7 USA
#8 Belgium (Flanders)
#8 Sweden
#10 Canada
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Post by onlyabba4meagain on Nov 15, 2023 9:03:09 GMT
1).. At present it is far from certain that 'Now and Then' will get a 2nd UK Week at No.1
on Friday. It looks like it may fall to No.2.
2).. With the 'Blue' Album at No.1 on Friday, it would have been their 1st UK 'Double Top'
since W/E 27th December 1967. Then they were No.1 with 'Hello Goodbye' in the Singles
Chart, and No.1 with 'Sgt Pepper...' in the Album Chart.
3).. However, the 'Blue' and 'Red' Albums will be No.1 and No.2 on Friday. It will be the 20th
Week that The Beatles have managed that. The last time being on W/E 11th April 1964, when
they were No.1 with 'With The Beatles' and No.2 with 'Please Please Me'. ABBA only managed
it for 1 Week - W/E 15th January 1977. 'Arrival' was at No.1 and 'Greatest Hits' was at No.2.
4).. Friday's UK Album Chart will be the 4th time that the 'Red' and 'Blue' Albums have been
Top 5 Hits. 'Blue' Album - No.2 in 1973, No.4 in 1993, No.4 in 2010 and No.1 in 2023. 'Red'
Album - No.3 in 1973, No.3 in 1993, No.6 in 2010 and No.2 in 2023. The 'Blue' Album is the
Album with the longest time to reach 1 - From W/E 5th May 1973 to WE 23rd November 2023.
A 'Span' of 50 Years and 6 Months.
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Post by gary on Nov 15, 2023 9:20:49 GMT
Thanks for that, Colin.
With The Beatles getting an 18th number one single, that brings them level with Elvis Presley if you ignore those three number ones he had with rereleases in the 2000s. But I am aware that those three are counted as new number ones, so Presley is considered to have 21 number ones.
My question is: why are those three considered to be new number ones? All three were number ones before. I’ve never understood this, but I guess there must be some logic.
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Post by johnny on Nov 15, 2023 9:30:42 GMT
Colin, don't count chickens. Neither the Red nor the Blue album may get to #1. Sales are very tight at the top of the chart and The Beatles' sales likely to be front loaded. It is, imo, unlikely they will be #1 in Singles or Albums this week - so no Double Top.
If the Red album was #6 in 2010 then not Top 5 then.
Do you know why the OCC are counting these much expanded albums as re-entries? As a chart novice, it seems to me the OCC makes rules up as it goes along - or more accurately ignores its existing rules.
Gary, no I don't understand why those 3 Elvis re-entry #1 hits from 2005 are considered #1 hits either.
Why did Chron delete his post here - and in another thread?
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Post by onlyabba4meagain on Nov 15, 2023 10:07:16 GMT
Johnny -- Yes, The Beatles may not be No.1 in either the Singles or Albums Chart on Friday.
I've heard that the 'Blue' Album is only 2,680 copies ahead of the current No.1 - '1989' by
Taylor Swift. Which means that the 'Red' Album is at No.3 and no longer at No.2. Also, the
'Now and Then' Single is down from No.1 to No.4.
It means that 'Now and Then' is the 1st UK Beatles No.1 Single, to only spend 1 Week at
No.1. However, it was a huge feat to get their 18th UK No.1 Single, as cannot be denied.
ABBA really should have Released several 'Variations' of their 1st 2 Singles off 'Voyage'.
Such as about 6 different coloured Vinyls of each. Plus a CD of each with each Group
Member on the Sleeve of the 4 CD's. That way, their Sales would been hugely increased,
by a lot of ABBA Fans buying every 'Variation' possible. The O.C.C. regard different coloured
Vinyl Releases, as being the same - their Sales are combined. Which is how 'Now and Then'
has managed to gain the biggest 7 Inch Vinyl Sales, since The O.C.C. took over the UK Charts
in Mid February 1994. Universal were far too unimaginative in how they Released the 2 initial
Singles. Anyone would think that they were ashamed of them. So, ABBA ended up with a No.9
Hit and a No.14 Hit. It is a shame, as they really could have both been UK Top 5 Hits.
Apparently, a lot of Beatles Fans would buy the 2023 'Red' and 'Blue' Albums, but they
think that they are far too expensive. So,they are waiting - and hoping - for the Prices
to come down.
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Post by johnny on Nov 15, 2023 11:27:38 GMT
Colin/OnlyABBA4meagain, regarding sales for the 2 Voyage singles their sales would have benefitted from, in order of importance
1. Being released well before we knew a new album was around the corner.
2. Sepatate releases ie not on same day
3. CD and Vinyl formats for both AND publicity about this
4. Released on a Friday, not Thursday.
I don't think anyone was "ashamed" of the 2 singles as you casually and not seriously remarked. I just think
1. For Unniversal the focus was on the album.
2. For ABBA it was the Voyage album, but more so thr Voyage concerts
Back to The Beatles, 18 #1's and first since 1969 is an achievememt.
I am pleased they also got to #1 in Germany -;where arguably, their Hamburg gigs kick started their illustrious career.
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Post by onlyabba4meagain on Nov 15, 2023 13:12:55 GMT
In the German Mid Week Charts 'Now and Then' has fallen from No.1 to No.2.
The Box Set of the 'Red' + 'Blue' Albums is in at No.3. The 'Blue' Album is at
No.5 and the 'Red' Album is in at No.6. So, they are not going to have their 12th
German No.1 Album. Believe it or not Robbie Williams has had 12 German No.1
Albums. (He's had 14 in the UK). Depeche Mode have also had 12 German No.1
Albums. Far more than the 2 No.1 Albums in their native UK.
ABBA had 8 German No.1 Albums and 9 No.1 Singles. The Beatles are 2nd there,
with 12 No.1 Singles. Way ahead is a Ukrainian Rapper called Capital Bra. (Also
called Joker Bra). He means next to nothing outside of Germany and Austria, but
he's had 22 German No.1 Singles!!! 8 of them in 2018 and 11 in 2019. How awful
for a Rap Act to have more German No.1 Singles than The Beatles and ABBA!
I do appreciate The Beatles Feat, in getting their 18th UK No.1 Single, in 2023.
Of course, none of us can pretend that it is a strong Single. It is really 'B' Side
material. I think that the 1st 2 ABBA Singles, off 'Voyage', were stronger.
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Post by johnny on Nov 15, 2023 13:37:41 GMT
Thanks OnlyAbba4meagain
I never heard of that (C)rap artist with so many German #1's.
Thinking back to the ABBA singles - their combined UK 1st week tally was 49,000. The Beatles "new" song was 78,000. But ABBA's new album, Voyage, was over 200k in week 1.
Colin, we are on the same page Now + Then getting to #1 is sone achievement - but the song itself is nothing special.
ABBA *could* have got to #1 - if they followed my recommendations, in a previous post!
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Post by HOMETIME on Nov 15, 2023 16:46:35 GMT
[...] ABBA really should have Released several 'Variations' of their 1st 2 Singles off 'Voyage'. Such as about 6 different coloured Vinyls of each. Plus a CD of each with each Group Member on the Sleeve of the 4 CD's. That way, their Sales would been hugely increased, by a lot of ABBA Fans buying every 'Variation' possible. The O.C.C. regard different coloured Vinyl Releases, as being the same - their Sales are combined. [...] As much as there'd have been smoke rising from my credit card as I bought the variations, I can't help feeling there's something a bit dishonest about that approach. Yes, yes, everyone is doing it and of course no sensible person will buy something they don't want. With streaming having utterly ruined the charts, this feels a bit like rigging things. I definitely agree that ISHFIY and DSMD should have been given full and very separate releases. ISHFIY was the obvious heart-swelling return. It had a great video, the 7" and CD should have been available widely on the Friday, with a picture disc too (a different image). Then, a month later, give DSMD the same levels of commitment. With everyone knowing the two titles from the get-go, there would have been a bit of impatient anticipation before the second single. Then announce the album a week later. |
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Post by johnny on Nov 16, 2023 14:06:48 GMT
I definitely agree that ISHFIY and DSMD should have been given full and very separate releases. ISHFIY was the obvious heart-swelling return. It had a great video, the 7" and CD should have been available widely on the Friday, with a picture disc too (a different image). Then, a month later, give DSMD the same levels of commitment. With everyone knowing the two titles from the get-go, there would have been a bit of impatient anticipation before the second single. Then announce the album a week later. I think releasing together, releasing on a Thursday and no vinyl or video for DSMD are all factors as to why the two singles didn't do better. But the biggest reason is a new album was announced alongside their release. This would have put people of buying the singles (not that there was much publicity about physical singles) That said,some fans might feel aggrieved to have bought CDs and vinyl of 2 singles only then almost straightaway to be told an album was on the way. I can't see why the two singles could not have been released much earlier with of course no mention of an album until.much later. |
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Post by chron on Nov 17, 2023 0:44:22 GMT
Why did Chron delete his post here - and in another thread? I'm getting sick of the sound of my own opinions! I keep rambling and it gets samey. |
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Post by johnny on Nov 17, 2023 17:54:12 GMT
Chart News:
Beatles Blue and Red enter at 2 and 3 this week - matching their 1973 peaks..
Sales :
Blue 15,000
Red 13,500
Combined Red and Blue box set 3,500
Taylor Swift holds on to #1 with just under 17k sales. That box set cost The Beatles #1 and #2 placings
That said sales are very low.
Now and Then falls from #1 to #6 and drops to #5 in Germany.
The Rolling Stones new album goes gold with 100,000 sales.
Now and Then's last week's sales was 78,000 - which included 19,000 on vinyl abd 19,000 on CD. The rest download and streaming.
By contrasts DSMD abd ISHFIY's week 1 sales were 26k and 23k but Voyage opened with 204,000. People waited for the album or maybe simply dudn't know physical copies available.
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Post by HOMETIME on Nov 17, 2023 19:53:46 GMT
I'm getting sick of the sound of my own opinions! I keep rambling and it gets samey. You're a great contributor, chron - you're concise, too. I'm the long-winded rambler who needs reining in! |
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Post by johnny on Nov 17, 2023 20:50:25 GMT
In multiple formats, The Beatles' Now and Then had 9 different physical formats. But chart rules only allow 3 so 6 were excluded. I think that's fair enough. Otherwise I feel it trying to manipulate the charts.
The Beatles have had some new song.videos and I have to say they are much better than ABBA's lyric videos.
Here's 3 tracks from Revolver and the Red Album given the video treatment.
I can hear Start by The Jam in Taxman and The Importance of Being Idle by Oasis in I'm Only Sleeping.
I'm only Sleeping
Taxman
Eleanor Rigby
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