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Post by justabba on Sept 12, 2024 10:26:44 GMT
Hold on a minute. I thought this was a forum where members could freely express their opinions without these sorts of recriminations? I happen to agree with Matt. This release is the dullest, weakest and ill judged I can ever remember from ABBA. Ive been a loyal fan for nearly 50 years and bought almost everything thats came out. I hate the cover and the tracklisting is bizarre to say the least. In this 50th anniverary year we were promised from Bjorn something more resourceful than a re-release. This turned out to be actually worse. I also think the 3 years of hints and rumours we all heard about the 2 unfinished songs lead us to beleive they might have been made available in this 50th year. Even 10 years ago they released the ABBA in Wembley cd with "Im still alive". Unless something extraordnary happens before December, a 10 inch vinyl of Waterloo has been it.
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Post by HOMETIME on Sept 12, 2024 10:37:24 GMT
To be 100% clear, I have absolutely no problem with Matt's post. I think it's brilliant. And it's exactly the kind of thing that can spark more wide-ranging chats and ideas. My use of the phrase overzealous was to do with those of us who can sometimes seem to demand every last scrap, like a birthright.
I really hope Bjorn has a knife and fork ready to eat those words. And I wish that both he and Benny would learn to keep it zipped when it comes to material they have no intention of giving us,
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Post by rickyrocknroller on Sept 12, 2024 11:05:22 GMT
I see HOMETIME 's take as rather balanced. I also think Undeleted has often been unterestimated even. There's been a tendency to see it more like a trailer for otherwise unreleased completed recordings. Even whole bootlegs presenting fan-edited/extended "full length" versions. But I think people were misguided by Just Like That, where it's really the case of a full, mixed song and recording having been edited down. It's somewhat the case for Terra del Fuego, where the chrous was deliberately left out. But for much of the rest? We can compare Rubber Ball Man to the full length rehearsal recording of Under My Sun. It consists of intro, verse, chorus, repetition of the verse and chorus with the same lyrics, key change and the transponed chorus. Carl Magnus Palm's Complete Recording Sessions suggest many early versions have this one verse and chorus and repeated feature. What did Michael B. Tretow edit into Undeleted with Rubber Ball Man? Intro, verse, chorus, key change and transponed chorus. As much as I enjoy the full length Under My Sun for structure and feel, most of what substentially happens in Rubber Ball Man is probably included in Undeleted.
And as much as I'd be interested in any full length track, I can see B&B being reluctant having the very basic recording in a rough mix as an ABBA song "Rubber Ball Man" sitting next to their meticulously constructed album tracks. For these cases, tying together cuts in one track, like in Undeleted, the (ultimately unreleased) Chiquitita Story or From A Twinkling Star seems to be a sensible way to make some of this material be heard without blowing the proportions of the complete catalogue. For Undeleted, Michael B. Tretow's fantastic editing provides added entertainment I wouldn't want to miss. That's why I would also love his original Chiquitita Story that he seems to have completed in 1994 to be released. I have also thought as it being the antecessor to FATSTAPA. A new Undeleted II in that style would be a very good idea as well.
Some very nice suggestions here by gassi . I had never heard of either Sinking Deeper (thanks for clarifying) and I Believe In You. Could you give some information on that as well?
I think, for the Dick Cavett recordings, a hurdle is they would have to be newly mixed from the original 24 track recording as the original TV mix was done in mono. Bernard Löhr has done five tracks already though in 2005 for the Complete Studio Recordings, supervised by Benny and even in 5.1 surround, very advanced for the time. Then, again, part of the issue with Dick Cavett is that it ultimately seems to be a huge set of rehearsal and different take recordings probably only Michael B. Tretow had a full view of. His 1994 mix of STMF/MAI for the TYFTM box set to me sounds better than Löhr's 2005 mix and really the best of any Dick Cavett variants. It has been noticed he had "treated" the first verse of STMF in some way with it lacking the shaking of Agnetha's voice. He might have patched the verse from a different take or one of the rehearsals, similairily to what Ludvig did with the drum track on the 2014 Wembley album. For On And On And On on the Live 1986 album, Tretow seems to have taken adifferent take or even a rehearsal. It's obvious in the "over in the corner I could see this other guy" section where Frida misses her cue in the TV take, but it you listen carefully and closely with the TV take in mind, you'll notice it's probably a completely different take altogether. It's not all for the heavy remixing.
The 1977 Australian recordings finished for The Movie would be ready to go though (at least some). Our neo-vinyl age would offer perfect opportunities to release at least some of it as a 10 or 12" EP or a short album. It could be "downgraded" even in scale as an exclusive Record Store Day vinyl release plus digital, similarily like its 1977 "Live 77" medley incarnation was as a giveaway on flexi disc. (That's probably the ultimate antecessor to Undeleted, the Chiquitita Story and FATSTAPA.) The same goes for Dick Cavett as well since it's got perfect vinyl length anyway. It would all be very welcome.
I'm with justabba for the 50 Years The Singles release. I've been following every major new release since 2005 with The Movie on DVD and the Complete Studio Recordings, and while some have been completely uninteresting to me, I have never felt as alienated as with this one. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Sept 12, 2024 11:39:09 GMT
Alienating is exactly the word for this new release. Perfectly put.
You've totally nailed the issues with the Dick Cavett sessions. Some of the 1977 recordings made their way to that 1986 live album - albeit put through every 80s-sounding filter available. If Ludvig was prepared to work with Löhr on the 1979 concerts for a purist-oriented release, he could do the same with at least some key songs/hits for a new compilation. I get that he couldn't get a good enough recording for an unbroken concert to release as a companion to the Wembley set, but surely he appreciates the value of those recordings now - especially the mini-musical. We're not being so unrealistic that we overlook the work and commitment required for such a release, but these are not unrealistic proposals. I believe these are key pieces in the greater ABBA jigsaw. I also reckon they make for a dignified coda to an astonishing body of impactful and influential work.
Speaking of Ludvig, didn't he recently assure somebody that he was "working on" the release of JLT? Is he another of the people whose efforts were rebuffed in compiling this new release?
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Post by johnny on Sept 12, 2024 11:58:40 GMT
...I wish that both he and Benny would learn to keep it zipped when it comes to material they have no intention of giving us, I think we can all agree on this. After all the years of talk about JLT, Benny blurts out about two unreleased songs, and adds they were "quite good". I am not sure there were ever plans to release anything other than a re-hashed The Definitive Collection. I pointed out some time ago the trend is for less archive stuff to come out, not more. I wonder if B+B regret releasing I am the City or Abba Undeleted. I don't know why but my hunch is they do. Personally I am not too bothered about hearing snippets of songs, unless that snippet was meant for a fully released song. I can do without the live recordings. You have to be there or at the very least see a live recording. To me the only live songs that sound better are Summer Night City, which is quite different and The Visitors from the Voyage concert. The objection to Just Like That is that the chorus and verses don't match and seem like from different songs. As pointed out by someone on here, you can say that about Don't Shut Me Down. Musical verses and poppy chorus - even more of a contrast than JLT. DSMD sounds like The Day Before You Came welded together with Take a Chance On Me. Just Like That is not so extreme like that. Looking at the results of the poll at the start if this thread 22...release of Voyage tracks. How wrong we were! 21 ...TV Docunentary. Tick 12...New compilation album. We should have all guessed a re-hashed compilation. |
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Post by gazman on Sept 12, 2024 14:43:55 GMT
Of course, there is still likely to be one more release from ABBA in 2024 - this year's 'Happy New Year/Felicidad' single, in whichever combination of colours Universal decide is appropriate this time 'round...
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Post by Alan on Sept 12, 2024 15:23:45 GMT
I like it when from time to time unknown little gems appear from the vaults, but also think that we cannot demand from artists that they empty even the wastebin for us fans just because we want to get hold of everything from our stars. No one here was ever suggesting that at any point. [I can see we’d moved on from that but I have only just caught up with posts today). |
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Post by johnny on Sept 12, 2024 16:28:07 GMT
To be honest Alan, it seems you are asking for that.
Maybe you can clarify your thoughts.
Baab's comment not directed at you - but my question is.
Where do you stand on the whole "ABBA owe us" or "release everything" spectrum?
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Post by Alan on Sept 12, 2024 16:44:02 GMT
Not at all, johnny. I’m not in any kind of position or power to “demand” anything. And I certainly wouldn’t want to even if I was. I thought baab’s post was slightly over the top, as was yours about “selfish” and “obsessive”. I agree with comments about the medleys. I rarely if ever listen to From A Twinkling Star to a Passing Angel, for instance, and I agree about live versions. I rarely listen to live albums - if I want to hear those songs, I’ll listen to the studio versions. And little bits of unfinished tracks wouldn’t be satisfying. But I think I’d rather not know that any of it exists, particularly Hit By A Train. |
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Post by johnny on Sept 12, 2024 16:50:58 GMT
I don't think either my post or Baab's were over the top.
Yep, we can all agree foolish to mention about Hit By a Train - especially if never going to be released.
So what exactly do you think ABBA should be released, that hasn't been?
ps we know you can't "demand" but what do you "want" about unreleased stuff.
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Post by baab on Sept 12, 2024 16:53:03 GMT
matt: Sorry, I didn't want to disqualify your comment in any way! Actually I wasn't accusing anyone in particular with my post. It is just my opinion in general on releasing unreleased stuff from any Artist. And it is simply that I do not get much excited about many demo or live releases, may it be because of bad recordings of live recordings or such short snippets of songs like in the "Undeleted" medley. Concerning the "demand" or if ABBA would "owe us", this medal has two sides. On one side, I think ABBA don't owe us anything. On the other hand, they tease with giving details of unreleased Songs out like Benny did with mentioning the two unreleased Voyage songs and letting CMP hear all this unreleased stuff and allowing to write about it in his book. What else than teasing is the reason for this?
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Post by johnny on Sept 12, 2024 17:19:50 GMT
Yep, certainly agree about "teasing" or as we say in the UK "taking the piss".
Benny should have kept his gob shut.
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gassi
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Post by gassi on Sept 12, 2024 17:34:56 GMT
Speaking of Ludvig, didn't he recently assure somebody that he was "working on" the release of JLT? Is he another of the people whose efforts were rebuffed in compiling this new release? From which source is this information? |
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Post by bjorenny on Sept 12, 2024 17:44:44 GMT
It was around the time of the B and B Voyage Q&A when someone mentioned it, but at the time I read it as "I'm working on it" as in trying to persuade his father to allow the release of JLT, rather than "I'm working on it" as in working on the actual track itself (whether that be remaster, remix etc.).
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Post by rickyrocknroller on Sept 12, 2024 19:45:40 GMT
Exactly bjorenny , that's how I understood Ludvig's remark as well, half-jokingly even. With Benny's interview mentioning the two extra Voyage songs however, I understood it as he was principally announcing them for future release after they have been finished (what he was indicating to do, as far as I understood him). It also fit the good and eased mood of the time. Then there were all these kinds of hints and rumours pointing towards the same direction. Agnetha, Frida and Björn all signaled they were open for some more to come. I wonder what happened that made Benny go back to stubborn apparently. |
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Post by DaronJulian23 on Sept 12, 2024 21:52:20 GMT
Of course, there is still likely to be one more release from ABBA in 2024 - this year's 'Happy New Year/Felicidad' single, in whichever combination of colours Universal decide is appropriate this time 'round... Last years splatter design was eye catching enough. Maybe they do the same thing this year but a festive red to entice folk to part with their cash. Not forgetting the Christmas bauble from the ABBA Museum, they tend to sell out every year now. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Sept 13, 2024 7:28:17 GMT
It was around the time of the B and B Voyage Q&A when someone mentioned it, but at the time I read it as "I'm working on it" as in trying to persuade his father to allow the release of JLT, rather than "I'm working on it" as in working on the actual track itself (whether that be remaster, remix etc.). Yep. Well remembered! I think it was a response to seeing somebody wearing a "Justice for Just Like That" T-shirt. I'm not sure how much faith I should have in Ludvig's talents as a Benny Whisperer. The Wembley album was an unexpected coup, but I'm struggling to think what else we can point at. (Not discounting his stellar work on the Voyage project, of course). Exactly bjorenny , that's how I understood Ludvig's remark as well, half-jokingly even. With Benny's interview mentioning the two extra Voyage songs however, I understood it as he was principally announcing them for future release after they have been finished (what he was indicating to do, as far as I understood him). It also fit the good and eased mood of the time. Then there were all these kinds of hints and rumours pointing towards the same direction. Agnetha, Frida and Björn all signaled they were open for some more to come. I wonder what happened that made Benny go back to stubborn apparently. I think many of us believed much the same - despite ourselves. I'm beginning to think that Benny needs a handler! |
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Post by voyage2 on Sept 13, 2024 8:47:23 GMT
Maybe we will get a vinyl release of Hit By A Train and Happy New Year as the B side!! I would buy a few of those!!!
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Post by justabba on Sept 13, 2024 8:58:21 GMT
I think we must accept that whilst there are at least 3 songs they COULD release (from a very reliable source, no I cant say) and very many alternative versions of songs in the "empty vaults" they have no intention of issuing them to the public. Quite what the 50th anniversary was supposed to be, I have no idea.
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Post by foreverfan on Sept 13, 2024 10:10:21 GMT
Perhaps we were expecting to much..... not...
Ok, realistically there are only a handful of us left on this forum, and have zero influence, but you would have thought someone would have at least looked at the " chat" from us and other sites, to see what would've been nice to see... Of course I don't know how these things are done, but as we tend to agree , not a lot of imagination has gone into anything for this 50th, all a bit of a damp squib as they say....
I guess we will all be hoping for 50th anniversary packages of SOS, MM next year..lol... long lost out takes, remixes etc....
It would be interesting to know , what has happened to make this year so non eventful, after everything that was said by Abba at various times.. probably we shall never know, but it's intriguing that they let bits out of the bag, why CMP , , to taunt us... Little Boots .....Ludwig..... Benny and those 2 tracks.... aaagghh so frustrating...
But hey.. what else can we do apart from moan..lol
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Post by rickyrocknroller on Sept 13, 2024 10:37:12 GMT
whilst there are at least 3 songs they COULD release (from a very reliable source, no I cant say) Are you talking about Just Like That plus the two from Voyage (Hit By A Train and possibly My Story Ends With You), or is there even a third Voyage era outtake? |
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Post by johnny on Sept 13, 2024 10:39:41 GMT
I was about to ask the same. Good minds and all that.
If three from Voyage, and you are not naming sources, Isn't this the very teasing that Benny, Ludwig, Little Boots et al get accused of?
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Post by justabba on Sept 13, 2024 11:42:04 GMT
I was about to ask the same. Good minds and all that. If three from Voyage, and you are not naming sources, Isn't this the very teasing that Benny, Ludwig, Little Boots et al get accused of? I'm thrilled Johnny you put me in the same category as Benny, but no I'm just a humble Music Director and conductor. You cannot be so nieve as to imagine anyone would reveal sources. In fact, they didn't elaborate on which 3 songs. I'm not obliged to say anything but thought the regular contributors to this forum might be interested. I was also told that Frida had been in the studio, presumably with Benny, in winter 2022. I took that to mean either they were revamping Just like that or giving the fans one final goodbye new single. Obviously neither proved to be the case. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Sept 13, 2024 11:54:47 GMT
In a way, it's a blessing that you haven't been given titles. I reckon most of us are mentally placing the two Voyage extras and JLT in the ready-to-go box. If a third new tile was sent our way, it would be torture. Now that there's a strong possibility that Frida has laid down some vocals on something - one of the three, perhaps - it cranks the rack another notch. I just don't understand why they chose to squander the half-century/anniversary as a springboard.
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Post by Alan on Sept 13, 2024 12:25:38 GMT
Did CMP mention a third track in his book? I know about early versions of Ode To Freedom that were quite different from the finished track.
I’ll say again though, I don’t really understand why they allowed CMP to hear that stuff. Even if it was only once or twice and he wasn’t allowed to record it, why let him do it and then describe it for the fans who wanted to hear it for themselves? As i say it’s definitely Jim Bowen at the end of Bullseye bringing on the car/caravan and saying “look at what you could have won”. Not needed is it?
I don’t think CMP heard the Voyage outtakes did he? The Voyage band apparently only heard Hit By A Train the once.
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Post by bjorenny on Sept 13, 2024 12:25:56 GMT
I may be totally naive, but I STILL feel that there's going to be something big released, even if it's next year rather than 2024. Who'd have thought that in 1993 after releasing More ABBA Gold with a previously unreleased track, that there would be a boxset with several unreleased tracks the following year? The 1993 version of this chat would assume that the compilation in 1993 with the 1 'new' track would be the best (and final release) we're ever going to get.
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gassi
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Post by gassi on Sept 13, 2024 12:32:17 GMT
In 'ABBA ON RECORD', CMP wrote there are at least four different tracks from the 'Voyage' sessions left unfinished. Because Benny mentioned there are two left, I think both are in a quite finished state. Maybe one of them will be included in 'ABBA VOYAGE' when a new arena is built somewhere in the world promoted with a new single or even an EP with four to five songs. Then it would make sense for Frida being with Benny ìn the studio to nail down some vocals.
I remember the Zoey Ball interview when Catherine Tate was on the radio, that the songs will see the light of day on 'a special event'. Maybe all this information will fit together in the end and there will be new music someday.
For 'ABBA VOYAGE' 'Super Trouper', 'Take A Chance On Me' and 'Money, Money, Money' were recorded. 25/26 songs were filmed for the show, that means there are two titles missing at least. Maybe a new song is among them.
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Post by Alan on Sept 13, 2024 12:38:16 GMT
I’m reluctant to count Catherine Tate’s comments as any kind of confirmation. From interviews I saw from her last year, promoting Doctor Who, she seemed a bit… er… excitable. Also what she was saying was second hand, through Russell T Davies who is known for bigging things up. Something may have got lost in Catherine’s re-telling of the story.
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Post by johnny on Sept 13, 2024 12:39:00 GMT
Maybe "new" Voyage songs may be released some how. A deluxe edition likely or has that ship sailed? A double album best of called The Singles, clearly not the place for unreleased tracks.
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Post by Alan on Sept 13, 2024 13:17:10 GMT
Maybe "new" Voyage songs may be released some how. A deluxe edition likely or has that ship sailed? If that did ever happen, at least no one could say they were making anyone buy the album twice in a short space of time. Pet Shop Boys released a new album in April this year, and in November will issue a deluxe version of it with four new tracks. Perhaps a second ABBA Voyage arena somewhere in the world would be time to issue a new track? Let’s not forget that the first two Voyage tracks only came about so as to have something new in the show. Arguably, they aren’t as important to the show as perhaps originally envisaged, but they may want to repeat the exercise for a second venue. If “Hit By A Train” and the other one are “quite good” we could perhaps refer to previous b-sides Lovelight, Elaine and Should I Laugh Or Cry. All of these were recorded for their respective albums but didn’t make it, instead being issued on the first singles. By the time of Voyage, b-sides had gone by the wayside, replaced by deluxe editions (either released at the same time as the main album or a while later). However, the spanner in the works there remains Just A Notion, resurrected over any of the outtakes. “Quite good” might not be quite as good as a 1978 outtake that no one was ever that bothered about. A few years ago, Queen released a multi-disc version of their 1989 album, The Miracle (the first one recorded post Freddie Mercury’s HIV/AIDS diagnosis). A “new” track from those sessions, “Face It Alone”, was released as a single but it wasn’t all that good. Other demos appeared on the re-released album. Some of them interesting but not essential. I hope if Hit By A Train and the other one are released, then it lives up to Benny’s comment about it. |
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