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Post by jj on Feb 15, 2024 7:27:22 GMT
I’m not familiar with that 1999 documentary either, jj .
Sorry, yes, "The Winner Takes it All" is the documentary I was referring to. Wasn't it produced in 1999? Were there any other quality ABBA documentaries released that year?? It's still the best one so far (despite the cringey Pete Waterman segments), imho.
Hopefully "Against the Odds" will be even better, and also appeal to a very wide audience, beyond just ABBA fans or even beyond fans of pop/rock music. I hope it will be riveting viewing for a general audience, a broad audience that will enjoy a fascinating story of how four musicians from Sweden, a country with a relatively small population and definitely not known for popular music, managed, through their hard work, high standards, and sheer determination and belief in themselves and in the quality of their music, to break through and, against all the odds stacked against them, built LASTING success and a prominent, PERMANENT place among the greats of popular music history.
I'm hoping the documentary makers have created a film that's not only very, very good, but also dramatic and interesting enough to thrill a WIDER audience and be in contention for the highest film awards, like an Emmy or a BAFTA - trophies this proven team of documentary makers have won before. I feel it will be something mature and serious, but also compelling and entertaining. I'm expecting Sweden's then socialist government and left-leaning society, that country's (overtly, at least) 1970's disdain for pop music, and the Swedish establishment's exaggerated, often-feigned (publicly at least) disgust for money, its revulsion for anything commercial, and its embrace of prog-rock and its "everyone's music is as good as anyone else's" relativistic nonsense to be the main foes arrayed against ABBA at the outset. After that, a new bunch of antagonists cropping up to assault ABBA will begin with that general, accepted English disdain for any Eurovision artists, followed of course by the "serious" music press and other critics who continued to bash and assault the group over the rest of their career, once they proved successful and stayed consistently popular (late 1975 to early 1981). We fans already know this story well. These storytellers, I hope, will inject some new vigour and excitement into it.
That the team of filmmakers here can already boast having won some excellent awards (and no doubt also garnered nominations for their films at other big film competitions) augurs well for the quality of "ABBA: Against the Odds". I'm quite excited about it and I now almost expect it's gonna be quite a gem of a film. Finally! A tribute ABBA has long deserved!
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Post by HOMETIME on Feb 15, 2024 10:29:13 GMT
I love your enthusiasm, jj ! My hope is that this documentary ushers in a new way of approaching the ABBA story. We've had decades of the trashy stuff, populated by C-list know-nothing talking heads. Even when the good stuff was celebrated, there was still some revisionist guff from pundits, critics and "serious" musicians pretending they were on board all along. There was the lingering whiff of snobbery, the enduring sexism, the tedious need to put the women in some fabricated competition for "dramatic" impact. If this documentary lives up to its promise, maybe other producers will feel that they finally have "permission" to deal with the subject of ABBA properly. Ideally, without the need to clutch at some sneering, embedded thread of superiority to protect their fragile rawk'n'roll credentials. If these rent-a-pundits have to be coaxed out of the woodwork to extend their own 15 minutes and be given (very obviously) scripted soundbites to mouth to camera, then the producers themselves have nothing useful to contribute beyond cynicism. The ABBA story and, above all, the music offers so much, that these fame-adjacent talking heads show how little research has actually been done by the producers. I don't think there has been a single documentary that hasn't gotten something wrong. So let's hope that the BBC rights the wrongs. I really hope we're facing a new era of documentaries. The Ludvig quote looks to me like an attempt at plausible deniability. He knows exactly what's planned for the year ahead and the extent of ABBA's personal involvement. He's just being professionally coy so as not to spoil surprises (I hope). |
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Post by bjorenny on Feb 15, 2024 11:07:23 GMT
I agree re: Ludvig's comment being very ambiguous. “They did the ABBA Voyage, a new album. They are not interested in doing any celebration, as far as I know, but you should ask them!” The "as far as I know" when he knows darn well whether anything's happening or not, when he could just say "No, nothing's happening" and curtail all the speculating.
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Post by jj on Feb 15, 2024 13:31:05 GMT
My hope is that this documentary ushers in a new way of approaching the ABBA story. It's about bloomin' time, too! We need to be rid of all those features and elements you mentioned, aspects that somehow let it be known that ABBA, - gaw bless 'em! - were still naff when it comes down to it, yer know? I'm going to ask a friend to see if he can send me the other two music documentaries this team produced already (the one on Freddie Mercury and the "1971: The Year Music Changed") to gauge what kind of thing we might get from "Against the Odds". If he finds them for me, I'll also let you know, in case you're interested in seeing them too. |
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Post by Alan on Feb 15, 2024 16:31:38 GMT
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Post by jj on Feb 15, 2024 18:40:35 GMT
Well I just watched "Freddie Mercury - The Final Act", directed by James Rogan, the same director for the upcoming "ABBA: Against the Odds". If this ABBA documentary is anything like the Freddie one, then we're in for top quality fare. Serious stuff. I'm not a Queen fan, so I can't say if any of the archival pictures and old backstage and alternative film footage I saw from Queen's and Freddie Mercury's career was exclusive never-before-seen material, but what I can say is that all this material was edited together, both sound and images, beautifully and masterfully.
If "Against the Odds" is presented similarly to "Freddie Mercury - The Final Act", then yes, we're going to see ABBA's story treated seriously, with respect, told by a professional documentary outfit for a sophisticated ADULT audience.
I hope the production crew (editors, graphics department people, etc.) employed to make the ABBA film is the same or at least of the same calibre as the team that worked on producing this Freddie Mercury film.
I visited imdb.com to get James Rogan's CV, listing some of the films he's worked on as director:
Some seriously good stuff!
I wonder how much never-before-seen ABBA footage James Rogan and his editors were granted access to? If they use any unseen ABBA material as deftly as they did the Queen stuff, Against the Odds is going to be quite a wonderful experience for fans like us to watch.
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Post by johnny on Feb 16, 2024 8:56:17 GMT
According to the BBC website
"Telling the epic story of ABBA’s greatest period of musical achievement framed between the albums Arrival (1976) and Super Trouper (1980)"
Interesting. I take it to be the focus but not exclusively so. Given the documentary maker it looks like a serious programme - at last.
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Post by foreverfan on Feb 16, 2024 11:09:48 GMT
I seem to be on a bit of a moan.... sorry...but....
Why only to 1980? We all know there's more and it will be like missing the final chapter of a book no matter how good the " book" may be.....also missing the first chapter......why....
so will It be a real reflection and as comprehensive as it could be ?
Yes of course I'll watch it, but knowing the ending will only cause frustration .. unless there's more to come ?
God I'm not enthusiastic What's happened ..lol
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Post by johnny on Feb 16, 2024 12:01:01 GMT
It would be very bizarre if the documentary was really only 1976 to 1980. I would imagine periods before and after that will be mentioned but the bulk of the programme will be those Golden Years....but I could be wrong.
I hope it generates interest in the studio albums.
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Post by Alan on Feb 16, 2024 12:28:55 GMT
I’m fine with it being focussed on those five years. As johnny says, events of 1972-1975 and 1981 and beyond will likely get mentioned but not dwelled upon. If they tried to do the whole 10 years and more in one documentary, it would be heavily condensed. By focussing on those five years there’s a chance it will be sufficiently detailed. It doesn’t say how long it will be, does it? I’m hoping for 90 minutes at least. |
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Post by richard on Feb 16, 2024 12:42:26 GMT
So it seems to be a serious documentary about the 'ABBA Gold' period, then? No doubt this is where most of the interest lies regarding ABBA. Pity, though, that in the process The Visitors period is left out - for some of us it's right up there when it comes to the best of ABBA, musically.
I'm still looking forward to seeing this documentary, however.
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Post by bjorenny on Feb 16, 2024 13:44:39 GMT
I'm loving the sudden buzz on this forum after many of us feeling underwhelmed a couple of weeks ago, to the point where 48 hours or so would go by without any of us having anything to post. Let's hope the Waterloo album editions and the documentary are the first of many things to be announced in the next month or so.
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Post by richard on Feb 16, 2024 14:31:03 GMT
Yes, it can happen. I remember when there wasn't a single post here for several days. Despite all the enthusiastic discussion at the time, the two new songs - that turned out to be to be ISHFIY and DSMD - weren't materialising, and so it seemed people got fed up and lost interest for a while.
I now have more periods when I haven't got anything to contribute. But I'm still hoping against hope that, somehow, there's a great celebratory, anniversary, last hurrah of some new songs! Because a 50th Anniversary repackaging of old tracks wouldn't interest me, tbh.
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Post by jj on Feb 16, 2024 15:24:13 GMT
So it seems to be a serious documentary
Every sign points to it indeed being a serious documentary film.
Here are some descriptions (from imdb.com) of director James Rogan's previous film projects:
- The story of the extraordinary final chapter of Freddie Mercury's life, the demonization of AIDS sufferers by the media and the Thatcher government, and how, after his death, one of the biggest concerts in history was put on to challenge prejudices around HIV/AIDS. (Title: "Freddie Mercury - The Final Act")
- The extraordinary story of three intertwined events from 1981: the New Cross Fire, which killed 13 young black people; the Black People's Day of Action; and the Brixton riots. (Title: "Uprising")
- A series examining the murder of Stephen Lawrence. (Title: "Stephen: The Murder that Changed a Nation")
- The musicians and soundtracks that shaped the culture and politics of 1971. (Title: "1971: The Year That Music Changed Everything")
- Uniquely intimate documentary following the stars of Monty Python as they reunite for a final time at The O2, London in July 2014. (Title: "Monty Python: The Meaning of Live")
All the documentaries above have either won various coveted awards, or garnered great acclaim, or are highly rated by critics, or all three.
So if past is prologue, it definitely looks like it will be quite a serious documentary about ABBA. And it will most likely be feature length, too (i.e., at least 90 minutes in duration).
P.S. Should anyone wish to see his Freddie Mercury documentary and so get an idea of the kind of treatment we can expect to see regarding ABBA, let me know in a PM and I'll send it to you.
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Post by jj on Feb 16, 2024 15:53:00 GMT
It wouldn't surprise me if this time Benny and Bjorn finally put their foot down and insisted that only serious, proven filmmakers and high quality production companies could be candidates, and that only after careful selection (with the help of trusted film and tv experts, of course), the director ultimately chosen by B&B (in this case, James Rogan) would then be given carte blanche to delve freely into the ABBA vaults and archives to his heart's content, to make of this documentary something truly special.
The ABBA members have surely had quite enough of these poorly researched cookie cutter tv-specials with silly B-celebrities and guests wearing glitter and platform boots, just as many dedicated fans have also had a gutful of that kind of nonsense.
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Post by johnny on Feb 16, 2024 16:22:53 GMT
Interesting that James Rogan chose a specific period in the Freddie Mercury documentary rather than the story of his lengthy career. Looks like the same for ABBA..
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Post by jj on Feb 16, 2024 16:37:32 GMT
Interesting that James Rogan chose a specific period in the Freddie Mercury documentary rather than the story of his lengthy career. Looks like the same for ABBA..
As someone pointed out, I think this makes for closer attention to details, rather than a wide-ranging story which becomes a basic checklist of just the main milestones in ABBA's career, all of which we fans and even quite a wide range of non-fans already know well by now.
The title ("Against the Odds") tells us that this will probably be about how ABBA managed to triumph, not just at Brighton, but consistently, over five solid years, despite an extremely hostile environment, especially in the UK and America, for a group whose own home country considered them despicable and disgusting, because making money and being successful was deemed politically incorrect.
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Post by jj on Feb 16, 2024 16:52:44 GMT
Also, those 5 years were ABBA's most incredibly successful, with their best-ever chart runs, and full to the brim with consistently great music and their very highest selling singles and studio albums.
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Post by jj on Feb 16, 2024 18:02:26 GMT
It's not entirely impossible that Rogan and/or his research team, after fossicking through film cans in ABBA's audio-visual library, found some usable out-takes from ABBA - The Movie, of concert footage, or backstage scenes, or other behind the scenes moments while they were on the 1977 and 1979 tours, that they could carefully edit and mix with some contemporary (1977 and 1979) short audio snippets they also found (from the tours, recorded by Hallstrom's crew in 77 or by the Swedish TV company in 79) with ABBA's regular band and/or ABBA members talking or conversing, most probably in Swedish (in which case they'd have those short snippets of dialogue accompanied with subtitles). Imagine seeing something like a clip of Frida giggling after coming offstage at the end of a 1977 concert while at the same time hearing Agnetha say something funny or even using swear words in a humorous way about Frida's wig coming off, and then Frida saying something like "That's it, I quit. You b*stards can just go on without me".
Wishful thinking, I know, but Rogan's team did manage to insert a few well-placed outtakes and soundbites they found in the Queen archives at interesting moments in the Freddie Mercury film, so maybe they also found stuff in the ABBA vaults and used some of these audio and visual artefacts creatively, in the same way. I don't see why this film won't also play with certain individual, isolated studio tracks (e.g., just Benny's piano track from a famous single, and then stop and start it again playfully, or use in a snippet with lots of added reverb just Agnetha's voice from a single audio track in isolation) from one or two of ABBA's most famous songs, like they did with one or two of Queen's famous songs in the Freddie film. The mind boggles at what they might do. They could be very creative with some of the stuff they find in the ABBA vault. Anyhow, the film is currently listed on imdb as being in post-production, so now's the time they're playing and trying out ideas and using all kinds of technology having fun with editing and mixing sounds and visuals. Oh to be a fly on the wall! A fly with a megaphone would be even better, so I could demand that they stick to a previous idea, or to go with X's idea instead, or just make the film 15 hours long and just use every idea they thought up.
Sorry for getting carried away.
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Post by bjorenny on Feb 18, 2024 16:23:36 GMT
I've just watched the Freddie Mercury documentary (I had actually seen it before but had forgotten it was that one) and it seems we are in for a (90 minute) treat of a serious ABBA documentary. Looking at the style of the Freddie one, surely it is going to have to include interviews with some, if not all, the ABBA members. It's a real shame that Michael B Tretow is unlikely to contribute due to health.
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Post by jj on Feb 18, 2024 17:10:04 GMT
I've just watched the Freddie Mercury documentary (I had actually seen it before but had forgotten it was that one) and it seems we are in for a (90 minute) treat of a serious ABBA documentary.
I saw it a couple of days ago and I think exactly the same way: if Rogan and his team have done as good a job with this as they did for Freddie Mercury, then we'll finally have something that treats ABBA as fully worthy of a lot of respect.*
(*At eff-ing last.)
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Post by HOMETIME on Feb 18, 2024 18:29:59 GMT
I wonder how close to the Eurovision the broadcast date will be? If the timing of things is close enough, I'm thinking that events might conspire to get Gold back to No.1. I wonder if Waterloo might also pop briefly into the upper parts of the singles charts in April. Given the performance of previous sets, I reckon the vinyl charts might finally give ABBA's version of Honey, Honey its first UK chart entry.
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Post by justabba on Feb 19, 2024 8:23:05 GMT
I know it's being broadcast in May, so I guess it could be timed for the Eurovision week?
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Post by HOMETIME on Feb 20, 2024 21:02:29 GMT
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Post by ianunderattack on Feb 20, 2024 23:13:40 GMT
Very unlikely I'd say: certainly while they're alive. The Beatles project has the approval of Paul and Ringo, whereas I doubt any of ABBA would co-operate with anything similar. (Frida was reportedly very unhappy when she briefly thought Mamma Mia! was about them.) And you'd come across the vexed problem of the accents, and none of the options are great. You either cast American or British actors who use their own accents which would feel very strange, or you get them to do mock Swedish accents which would sound comical, or you cast Swedish actors and subtitle them which would kill it commercially. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Feb 21, 2024 10:58:35 GMT
Agreed: I can't imagine the ABBA members approving such a venture.
On the matter of accents, there is another option... There are plenty of Swedish actors who are fluent in English and could play the parts brilliantly for an international audience. I guess people might see the movie(s) as less valuable if the cast were largely unknown.
Still, it's all wildly hypothetical given how highly the ABBA members value their privacy.
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Post by gazman on Feb 21, 2024 11:34:59 GMT
I am fairly sure that none of ABBA want a biopic of their lives - and I would think that Ludvig has been asked to ensure there is no official approval in terms of the responsibility he 'inherits'.
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ASenseOfExpectationn
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Post by ASenseOfExpectationn on Feb 23, 2024 7:33:06 GMT
Alright, just one more bit of speculation, how about a lifetime achievement award for ABBA?
Why? Because:
- They were one of the very few non-Anglophone music acts to sell millions of records globally.
- They were one of the few legacy acts to have a multi-generational wide following.
- They helped make the Eurovision Song Contest recognisable outside of Europe.
- They virtually invented the music video. ABBA’s reluctance to hectic touring schedules led them to make short films for their songs.
- They virtually invented the jukebox musical. Mamma Mia!, whether you love it or hate it, became an unexpected success in 1999, eventually leading to a film version.
- They have a technologically groundbreaking concert in a stadium with their name on it!
And most importantly:
- ABBA made Sweden one of the world's most successful exporters of music outside of the US and the UK, paving the way for the likes of Roxette, Ace of Base, Avicii, Swedish House Mafia, Zara Larsson, Loreen, Tove Lo and Robyn to name a few. Perhaps, some of them might perform at the SVT gala?
Hopefully, a special Grammy or MTV lifetime achievement award might be calling with ABBA’s name on it!
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Post by richard on Feb 23, 2024 12:56:05 GMT
You make an excellent, well argued, case for a lifetime achievement award for ABBA, ASenseOfExpectationn.
Thinking about it now, even after all these years, ABBA's overall achievement is quite extraordinary.
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Post by justabba on Feb 23, 2024 14:00:00 GMT
Its scandalous they havent received a lifetime brits award. Not only as a group,but they have 3 shows running in London employing a fair few british I suspect!
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