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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 3, 2024 10:02:33 GMT
The idea that ABBA could (and some seeming to suggest that they should) have stopped with the first two songs is interesting. ABBA - and Benny above all - are known for rigid quality control. We've had forty-plus years of immovable stubbornness on the matter of Just Like That, which Benny refuses to release because it's "not good enough" (Agnetha and Frida have spoken separately of their love for the song, with Frida saying in the 90s that she'd happily return to the studio to fix what ever "the boys" saw as problematic). I'm convinced that Voyage met the approval of all four members. CMP's new book suggests that other songs were abandoned along the way because A&F weren't feeling them, so we have to assume that Benny allowed the thoughts/feelings/opinions of the others to play their rightful part. So ABBA themselves are/were happy with Voyage as an album.
The Voyage chapter as written by CMP might be frustrating in what it doesn't deliver in terms of detailed recording information, but it does seem to shed some light on Benny's and Bjorn's connection with, and attitude towards the songs. Little Things is a case in point. Benny presented it as a minuet. There was no apparent let's-turn-this-into-a-banger discussion; it seemed to be a case of "I like this, let's see if it works." Bjorn got the Christmas inspiration from the melody and Benny's response seems to have been "really? Well, if you insist." They are both 100% unbothered that it's not a rock-around-the-tree bop for office parties, and seem not to have imagined it as a single. So Universal might have been the instigators there. But my original point is that Benny is anal-retentiveness personified when it comes to their music. I imagine he'd have been the most likely to jam a platform boot on the brake if there was a whiff of doubt about the album.
This forum would have been apoplectic with frustration if we'd heard that there were eight, possibly ten other newly recorded songs, but we weren't going to hear them. It's okay if Voyage doesn't float your boat. It doesn't make you a better or worse fan if you prefer the group's original output. I think our discussions here have been pretty objective, for the most part. I think it might be that, despite ourselves, we might not have come fully to terms with our heroes' ages. We might have liked a 21st century Voulez-Vous, but how incongruous would that have been?
I think that the relative looseness and corniness of the BAO material might have been a fairly big influence on the writing of this album. If ABBA had shelved Voyage, I wonder how many of the songs would be assigned to Helen Sjoholm and Tommy Korberg for a new BAO release? I can imagine pretty much all of them in that setting.
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 2, 2024 17:47:54 GMT
With SNC, I think the people who tended to buy the most ABBA records might have been taken aback by its hardness (relative to their other singles). I think the same thing happened with DYMK, which peaked only one place higher. I wonder if that might be why Epic made the poppier Angeleyes the lead A-side, with the brasher/tougher Voulez-Vous on the A2 side?
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 2, 2024 17:44:11 GMT
Does this help, onlyabba4meagain ? The entire chart is fascinating. For those that are interested , from another site UKMIX. Some members have compiled a top 5000 of sales from the 1980s Here are ABBAs sales, apparently very accurate..... Here are ABBA's UK 1980s sales from Robbie #42 Super Trouper, 698, 028 #115 One of Us, 525, 302 #152 The Winner Takes it All 475,775 #1056 I Have a Dream 186,138 #1107 LAYLOM. 178,248 #1534 Head Over Heels 132,664 #1866 Under Attack, 103,712 #2048 The Day Before You Came, 88, 892. #3082 Thankyou for the Music, 44,489 #2546 I Know There’s Something Going On, 62,120 #3059 The Heat is On 44, 846 #4010 Wrap Your Arms Around Me 26,724 I was always sceptical about TWTIA selling over 500k let alone 600k. The minor hits did better than I expected.
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 2, 2024 14:05:48 GMT
For what it's worth, we have a dedicated oldies station here in Ireland called RTÉ Gold. Tracks I've heard recently include Eagle, So Long, Money Money Money, Angeleyes, Knowing Me Knowing You, Dancing Queen, Does Your Mother Know, and The Winner Takes It All. An expected selection from Gold, but So Long took me by surprise. I don't keep tabs on their playlist (I don't know if it's even published - other Irish fans might know?), I just tune in when I'm prepping dinner etc.
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 2, 2024 9:59:35 GMT
It's five full-fat stars from me.
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 1, 2024 17:38:59 GMT
I think Shine is the Frida album I return to most. I still rate it. Recently, I was lucky enough to hear two of the three unreleased tracks (Can't Be Serious and When Love Turns To Lies - a friend splashed out for bootlegs). Both of them great. An expanded 40th anniversary edition including these tracks would be a massive treat. In fact, I think a remix of Can't Be Serious would make a great single.
For illustrative purposes, here is a version released in 1985 by the little-known Ginny. Not a million miles from Frida's version.
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 1, 2024 17:33:20 GMT
The poll is totally fine as it is, johnny. I still like OTF but, of late, I'm liking the lyrics less. Melodically and vocally, it's still lovely. I'd love to hear the earlier version in the different key, with different lyrics. #deluxe #anthology I wonder what our collective attitude would be if they had just issued the first two tracks and withheld all of the others? How frustrated would we be if/when we'd found out?
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 1, 2024 14:47:28 GMT
I give the album 2 stars. The only track I really like is DSMD. They should have stopped there and release that one with a video. Wow, Henry, you really have gone off the album since you thought an EP would have been better. I guess it's proof that everybody's opinions evolve constantly. And why not? Having read the CMP chapter on the album, I have a slightly different view of the album myself. I still enjoy it and, for the most part, I tend to play it right through. I don't skip anything. I think it works best as a set. A highly personal opinion, of course. The song that has dipped most in my affections is Just A Notion. The full-group vocals of the verses sound a little untidy to my ears. The same problem arises with Little Things: Agnetha and Frida are not in the kind of perfect vocal synch that we'd have heard if the song had emerged on any of the previous albums. It might have been better to assign a single lead vocal. I don't hate any song on the album - my peeves are to do with the instrumentation. Flutes, especially. My favourite songs remain ISHFIY, DSMD, NDAI and OTF. The rest shifts around a lot more in my affections that they used to. KAEOD was my least favourite for a long time, but I like it a lot more now. JAN might have started off around fifth favourite for me, but has plummeted. WYDWM and KAEOD have risen. While the star poll doesn't cover half-points, I'd probably award 3.5 stars. But 4 stars doesn't feel overly generous, so that'll be my vote. Voyage still gets way more plays than the early albums.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 31, 2024 15:54:26 GMT
I'm not sure the accusation of snobbery is valid when it comes to acts we're not exposed to. The big selling acts you mention - Swift, Madge - have made their careers in this market. Alla Pugacheva has not (I do remember her from Eurovision in the 90s, though). It's not snobbery if we simply don't know her stuff! (Is it mostly in Russian?). I don't detect any sneering/distain towards any of the little-known acts you mention. Maybe they endure it in their own markets?
I have no time for snobbery: if you enjoy something, if you're moved by it, if it means something to you, ignore the naysayers. I enjoy many a snob-derided act and it actually gives me pleasure to grind snobs' gears. Get over yourselves!
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 30, 2024 19:18:21 GMT
The talk about ABBA appearing/not appearing at Eurovision has taken an interesting twist. I've seen two separate mentions of the ABBAtars in this context and, while I'm sure it might well be speculation/wishful thinking/hypothesis, it would be an amazing coup if they could pull it off. I agree with the sentiment that this years entrants shouldn't be overshadowed and, as johnny mentions, there is the murkiness of Israel's involvement and the negativity and protests that attracts. If they were somehow able to pull it off, an ABBAtar appearance would be amazing though. Imagine being able to place it in the actual show afterwards, and replace the old footage with a zingy new "performance"?! The second anniversary would be a great moment for that - with B&B on the premises. It would also be after the Eurovision, meaning that its "world premiere" would not be derailed. Also, ABBA as people would be at a bit of a remove from any possible negativity surrounding the broadcast. That's all centred around an extremely big IF, of course. I totally get onlyabba4meagain 's point about snobbery. It just sucks the joy out of everything. These scientist dudes need a good 20 minutes on a bouncy castle, to get the hell over whatever ails them. At this distance, it stinks a bit of xenophobia, sexism and fragile masculinity. Colin's right@ we should revel in every minute of joy this anniversary year brings us. More ABBA Gold's 20th anniversary seems like a no-brainer to celebrate. Pop it out on white vinyl (with the correct ABBA logo) and I'll part with my cash immediately.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 26, 2024 16:35:40 GMT
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 26, 2024 11:57:43 GMT
Agreed. The final business quarter makes a lot of sense in terms of giving a new release the most commercial support - a lot of Christmas stockings need stuffing, and a new ABBA release would be perfect. johnny posted links to that Music Week article about how the 50th anniversary should boost the back catalogue. I wouldn't be surprised if Gold returned to the Top 5 - or even No.1 - on foot of the documentaries, the Swedish gala thingy, and any nostalgic event at Eurovision. Depending on how the documentaries showcase the music, there might even be scope for some modest recharging of some of the hits - or even albums or individual tracks. A new release in Spring/early Summer might dilute some of that kind of focus. Plus, it's the anniversary year, so something worthwhile is needed for the latter part of the year and to "sign off", as t'were.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 25, 2024 19:06:20 GMT
It actually sounds good to me, too. I get the feeling that the launch point is the acceptance that ABBA's music is solid gold brilliance but other nonsense got in the way of its appreciation. So it's not an analysis of the music or the recordings or the performances, but the story of a genius group triumphing against the odds. Other documentaries are clearly needed - especially to delve into the music, its creation, its longevity. That would be an opportunity to look at the brilliance of The Visitors, possibly even as a standalone episode. Maybe something biographical that sidesteps the tabloid factoids, too.
But now I'm wondering how much overlap there might be between Against The Odds and When ABBA Came To Britain.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 25, 2024 11:21:52 GMT
So.... Any news from Denmark? How was the cinematic event? Have there been any reviews?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 23, 2024 21:34:40 GMT
That is a LOT of money. That's the sort of bungling that should have lost someone their job.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 22, 2024 20:24:56 GMT
That's odd, onlyabba4meagain, given how well they've been represented on the other yearbooks. I wonder if the anniversary plans made a difference in terms of what they'd allow? Yes, the Queen arrangement is a bit tedious. I'm not sure how reliable the information is, but I had heard that Queen imposed the condition that they have to be the opening track on any of these compilations.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 21, 2024 14:41:22 GMT
That still baffles me. All that money just... blown. A rare top 3 hit and they didn't capitalise on it? Madness. There were (IMO) three further candidates for follow-up single on The Album: an edit of Eagle; One Man, One Woman; and Hole In Your Soul. All very American-sounding tracks (OMOW especially). They even had videos for two of them.
Atlantic refused SNC because the album wasn't ready - bonkers. Maybe they felt Chiquitita wasn't a perfect fit for the US market at that time, and January probably wasn't the right time for a single with the word Summer in its title. But IIWFTN was ready by then, and a 7" edit had even been made and test pressed (it appeared briefly on Discogs in the last couple of years). All of that seems like label incompetence to me, but the biggest crime was not following TACOM within a month or two. And what was the notoriously grumpy and pushy Stig doing during all of this?
Maybe the Against All Odds docu will mention this period?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 20, 2024 16:21:25 GMT
I guess we'll find out soon enough! The good thing is that the format seems to avoid the schlocky tabloidesque guff that tainted some other ABBA "documentaries." It seems like a genuinely respectful series. Given the guest talking heads that appear, I can't help wondering whether Pete effing Waterman will manage to insert himself into this one! I have a hunch that the likes of John Tobler and Judd Lander will appear. Will they drag Charlie (Bates?? am I misremembering his surname?), the editor of the ABBA Magazine, in front of the camera?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 20, 2024 16:06:13 GMT
Thanks for that matt. It shoots down the tried old nonsense about nothing being left in the vaults. Nice try, Bjorn! That's the sort of stuff that makes this book attractive, lamont. I think I'm edging towards ordering a copy.... Possibly.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 19, 2024 20:14:42 GMT
I totally take your point. The WBCTB docu paid almost as much attention to the people in their orbit as it did to Blondie. PR people, promoters, photographers, producers and crew. There was a sense of many of these people revelling in their own perceived coolness/relevance. And fine, go for it. The end result was excellent. From what I've seen (I've been catching up on those episodes I've missed) the other programmes in the series didn't really deviate from that kind of approach.
But the feel of the programme seemed reliant on cool - both Blondie's, and that of the people around them. ABBA, by sharp contrast, faced a lot of sneering, snobbery. Sexism plagued both - it was the 70s after all. I'm wondering how any of the people from back then will account for themselves - media heads, journalists, reviewers, etc. And that might well be the whole point of the exercise: maybe those attitudes will be explored. I'm really curious about whether any of the ABBA members will take part, as Blondie did?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 19, 2024 19:17:50 GMT
True. I've been surprised over the years, hearing some artists being dismissive of and/or embarrassed by some of their most beloved hits.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 19, 2024 16:33:46 GMT
I recall Bjorn mentioning quite recent about TKHLHC being a good song.... ( I agree but many don't ) and there may be others.. But you're right in the most part , outside of the " singles" they rarely mention any other track.... Its always in the the " ear" of the beholder, and for many of us there are great tracks outside of those 20 or so, or even worse the 15 you mentioned.... I agree with him re. TKHLHC too. Benny is a conundrum. I remember an interview with B&B on MTV around 1992, when Gold had just topped the chart for the first time. The interviewer was asking them about their pride in ABBA's music and Benny said something like "I can't believe we weren't killed for being so corny." Now, I don't know if that was a stab at false modesty or some level of distain for ABBA's poppiness. For all his preciousness about recording standards and the tiny number of those he rates, he must surely have some proper perspective now? If not, why invest time, money and ego in Mamma Mia!, the Voyage show and the Voyage album? Does the ker-ching of a cash register override all those qualms? With reference to Benny's number 15 - did he say recordings or songs? There is a difference when you weight that up.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 18, 2024 19:47:30 GMT
I've just watched When Blondie Came To Britain over on YouTube. A really good production.
I wonder how much revisionism will be needed to give it the same kind of shape? Blondie had more critical acclaim and perceived cool because of the edginess of their music - the earlier stuff, especially. Looking forward to seeing what emerges. Where the Blondie show ends with their Glasto appearance, ABBA's will probably conclude with Voyage. A great ad for the show and it can only be cooler and more elegant than the stuff that came out in the Mamma Mia! early years.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 18, 2024 16:26:09 GMT
That's kinda what I was thinking too, so I don't know what they can use from the Wogan show, given that ABBA never appeared. Still, only few weeks before we get to see what the new show offers.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 18, 2024 14:38:34 GMT
Little enough to scare the horses there, with all the re-runs. I think the bookies will give short odds on Dancing Queen as the ultimate ABBA song.
More ABBA at the BBC mentions Wogan - which will be Agnetha performing The Last Time, and possibly the related interview. Unless they propose to include Gemini's performance of Just Like That, with Benny on keyboards? Other than that, there's If It Wasn't For The Nights on Mike Yarwood and Lovers (Live A little Longer) from ABBA In Switzerland - both absent from the first ABBA At The BBC. Will they include the two brief appearances by Frida and Agnetha on TOTP promoting their respective albums? Will there be clips of Agnetha promoting A in 2013? Anything from Chess, maybe? Or will the focus be tightly trained on the group?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 18, 2024 12:06:08 GMT
Thanks for that, Colin!
An improved/expanded/completed ABBA At The BBC would be welcome. The When ABBA Came To Britain documentary could be really interesting.
The 50th anniversary aside, this suggests (to me, anyway) that TV producers are finally realising that their previous laziness won't cut it any more. The Against The Odds production (of which I'm sure TV stations have seen by now for scheduling purposes) will hopefully knock future producers out of their complacency. Discrete parts of the overall story offer great opportunities for exploration.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 17, 2024 17:58:20 GMT
It’s something of a revelation that Hit By A Train was completed. It had previously been implied that it was one of two imcomplete tracks that needed more work. If it is “dark, beautiful and upbeat” it sounds like it should have been on the album instead of Little Things. Or Just A Notion. Unless it's too close, stylistically, to one of the other album tracks? Or maybe it has a solo lead vocal that might upset the vocal balance on the album? So we have no information at all on My Story Ends With You? That's disappointing. Here are my stand out moments from the voyage chapter by CMP.. [...] 3, there is a completely different version of ode that was worked on throughout 2019. [...] That sounds properly interesting, and something that could grace an anthology and/or a deluxe edition of Voyage.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 17, 2024 16:15:42 GMT
Agreed. Q4 makes the most sense to me too. It makes the most of the entire calendar year. Pop a compilation/anthology out in November and look at the Christmas market giving sales an extra bump. The documentary in May should (I'd hope) give Gold a big boost. We'll have had the Waterloo HSM/singles box/pic discs in April. Possibly even a brief return to their respective charts for the album and singles. That would leave a gap in the period June to October. Ideally, Gold would still be riding high but why not reissue More Gold on vinyl around then?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 16, 2024 10:34:04 GMT
I wonder if it's possible that Epic tried to engineer a situation where the B-side turned into a hit as big as the A-side? If people had bought the Atlantic import in sufficient quantities (and from the range of shops whose sales counted towards the charts), you'd have had separate entries for LAYLOM (Epic A-side) and OAOAO (Atlantic A-side). A bit like what happened with Boney M's Rivers Of Babylon/Brown Girl In The Ring (although that really happened because of radio DJs flipping the record).
If there were enough imports, I think it's possible that OAOAO might have ended up being recorded as the bigger hit. That's not a comment on either song. What I mean is that people would have been more likely to buy the cheaper 7", whether it was the A- or B-side they preferred.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 15, 2024 14:23:01 GMT
I'm similarly curious foreverfan. I suspect that many people will skip to the Voyage chapter first, in case there's anything genuinely new to be discovered. The rest of the book seems to focus on the promotional aspects of each release, which I'm still interested in. It might be another day or two before the first general reviews are in. They'll help me decide whether to order the e-book.
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