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Post by richard on Jun 8, 2019 11:24:49 GMT
I reckon there might be a number of such songs. Probably a superior set of headphones would help, which I don't have.
It's mostly about Agnetha and Frida's vocals, of course; and I wonder if, as fans, even after all these years (for some of us), we sometimes make understandable, yet mistaken, assumptions about their vocals?
Take Lovelight, for instance. It starts off with Agnetha singing low and Frida harmonising below.
Well, no, I don't think it is that way. It's definately Agnetha singing low - AND harmonising with herself even lower. It's a vocal rarity for ABBA - and a great sound to my ears.
That's just one example - I'm sure there are many others.
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Post by josef on Jun 8, 2019 12:03:56 GMT
It's definitely worth investing in the best kind of headphones you can afford. Actually, they needn't be that expensive, it's just finding a pair that do the best job for your lugholes! I recently went on a binge- buying several and even some bluetooth ones and my mate sent me a collection of early Madonna songs and I heard things I'd not noticed before in them! A real treat, like having new ears/hearing the songs for the first time. Amazing. Likewise with ABBA, new things pop up all the time if you make the effort to put aside some time with decent headphones and tune in. I try to find oopsed versions of their songs and Agnetha sounds like she's almost screaming during a section of Dancing Queen! Incredible. Also, the vocals in Lovers (Live A Little Longer) are awesome if you dissect them. It was never one of my favourites but I really appreciate it now. Love Frida's sassy approach.
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Post by josef on Jun 8, 2019 12:07:37 GMT
I find YouTube links to be handy but I always type in 'HQ' as some of the uploads aren't the best. But occasionally I'll find an upload of a song that's been tweaked to really highlight the brilliance of some songs so it's worth having a trawl. I do also use other ways of listening to music...cd/vinyl..even mp3.
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Post by richard on Jun 8, 2019 18:59:35 GMT
Yes, I've also heard uploads of the same song to YouTube that differ in quality so much.
I'm sure I'm missing out by not having high-quality headphones. I need to get some.
However, I'm also sure that often - even with good headphones and careful, attentive listening - it's down to personal interpretation and one's native ability to detect very subtle nuances. Not easy.
My favourite book about ABBA, because it focuses on their music, is 'ABBA: Let the Music Speak' by Christopher Patrick. Yet I think he simply gets it wrong, for instance, about the ABBA Fernando vocals - despite, I assume, listening through some very good headphones.
I've always been intensely fascinated and interested in how Agnetha and Frida's voices were deployed on ABBA's recordings - one of the high points in pop music history!
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Post by josef on Jun 8, 2019 19:25:30 GMT
The difficulty for me is two things: trying to separate Agnetha and Frida's voices- that legendary 'third voice'. They blend so well together that I struggle to hear them individually at times. True alchemy! And secondly. ..my hearing. I doubt it's what it once was after years of listening to LOUD music. I intend to check out Fernando a little closer, see if I can hear what you hear.
Another song I struggle with (and it's a big favourite) is The Visitors. I love the sound of all four singing together. I just wish my hearing could pick out the girls in the chorus a little better. I can hear Benny though, which is a great thrill. I think I'd like to hear the song picked apart. I'd do it myself only I'm no expert.
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Post by richard on Jun 9, 2019 10:40:06 GMT
I agree that it's often very difficult to distinguish Agnetha and Frida's voices - one gets confused by their varied deployments. Sometimes they're singing in unison (I Do, I Do...); sometimes it's just one of them in double-tracked unison (Agnetha: Honey, Honey); and sometimes, especially in the mid-range - just my opinion of course - it's just Frida doube-tracked (verses: WIKTT; IIWFTN).. I find their ABBA vocals such a complex wonder that I resort, occasionally, to a simplistic summing up to pretend to myself that I've got a handle on it somehow: Frida - verse girl; Agnetha - chorus girl!
But even so, is it possible that there might be at least something in that, based on their respectve vocal ranges?
The Visitors is probably my favourite ABBA track - certainly in my top three. I remember the impact the chorus had on me the first time I heard it. The build-up to the first chorus, Benny's compelling synth riff, those vocals. Brilliant as far as I'm concerned!
Maybe I'm confusing Bjorn with Benny, but I've heard it as Bjorn and Frida singing an octave apart (low to mid-range) and Agnetha a wispy voice above. I don't understand why her voice is so quietly mixed in the chorus.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2019 11:10:56 GMT
It's definitely Björn (not Benny) on The Visitors.
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Post by josef on Jun 9, 2019 11:32:28 GMT
And you know this because....?
Anyway I hear it as Benny's slightly raspy tone but I guess it could be Bjorn. They both have a slightly nasal tone.
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Post by HOMETIME on Jun 9, 2019 11:33:32 GMT
This kind of thread shows exactly why an in-depth documentary that focuses on the music is needed. The image, the love stories, the kitsch have all been done to death, but something that focuses squarely on how the MUSIC was made is long overdue. We need something that looks at the songwriting process of key songs... the recording and production... The retries and returns to the drawing board... A commentary on who did what and why.
If B&B are willing to invest so much time and effort in the Mamma Mia! franchise, then why not commission an eight-part series on the creation of their albums? Non-album singles could be covered with the albums on which they eventually became bonus tracks. It could be released on DVD and/or broadcast on the likes of Netflix. Or imagine the possibilities for an anthology box set that includes (in a strictly documentary context) some alternate versions and unreleased tracks/snippets?
Carl Magnus Palm's exhaustive work would be a terrific starting point and he would make a great behind-the-camera interviewer.
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Post by josef on Jun 9, 2019 11:37:26 GMT
I'd LOVE something like that, Tony. I'm sick to the back teeth of all things Mamma Mia! and now this dreadful Mamma Mia! The Party (overpriced, elitist nonsense designed for those with more money than sense) and talk of a THIRD film!! Please God, no more.
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Post by richard on Jun 9, 2019 12:56:58 GMT
Agreed. I'd really like to see that, too. Then the initial impetus for a thread such as this would be redundant! Oh, thanks very much! Just kidding  |
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Post by HOMETIME on Jun 9, 2019 13:07:04 GMT
LOL! If nothing else, it would make a good reference point for when someone eventually wades in - as often happens in these things - presenting their opinion as fact. Plus, it would be addictive viewing for nerds like me!
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Post by richard on Jun 9, 2019 13:38:21 GMT
And if your great idea ever came about, no doubt there would someone creating a thread to point out that Bjorn's or Benny'' memory is faulty if that someone doesn't like what they hear - if their fond illusion is shattered.
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Post by Alan on Jun 9, 2019 18:45:31 GMT
LOL! If nothing else, it would make a good reference point for when someone eventually wades in - as often happens in these things - presenting their opinion as fact. Plus, it would be addictive viewing for nerds like me! There were certainly plenty of those on the various forums over the years! One thing that does stick in my mind is a thread about The Album. It challenged my thinking of who sang what. The reasoning was that as Agnetha was pregnant at the time, she wasn’t available for as many sessions as normal, so some vocals that I thought were hers were actually Frida’s. The other reason given was that Frida’s higher range was higher than Agnetha’s mid-range (and that Agnetha’s lower range was lower than Frida’s mid, or something). Anyway, I seem to remember this person saying the “la la la” vocals in Move On were Frida’s. For over 35 years or so I’d never thought of them as anything but Agnetha’s. In a video of the song, I would picture Agnetha occupying a corner of the screen at that point in the track. Are they really Frida’s? |
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Post by HOMETIME on Jun 9, 2019 20:00:26 GMT
I just listened to it again now. To these jaded ears, it sounds like both girls together - there's a very Agnetha-sounding higher harmony on the second half. What I wasn't expecting, though, is what I suddenly heard on the "like a roller in the ocean..." section: it sounds like it could be all Frida? Of course, this might have been a deliberate way of distributing the vocal duties around the song: a Bjorn section, an Agentha verse, Frida on part of the chorus, both girls harmonising on the third verse?
Again, speculation!
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Post by gary on Jun 9, 2019 20:40:55 GMT
Despite having listened to ABBA for over 40 years, and despite Agnetha and Frida having quite different singing voices, I have a feeling I still quite often get it wrong. I sometimes check on ABBA Omnibus to see who handles the lead vocals, although of course that doesn’t go into detail about backing vocals. As an example, I Am The City and You Owe Me One sound like Frida leads to me, but apparently not.
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Post by josef on Jun 9, 2019 21:12:04 GMT
I always thought it was Agnetha doing the la la la in Move On or at least both girls. As for You Owe Me One...that IS mainly Frida, isn't it?! 😲 I've always heard her in that, mainly. Oh it gets confusing. All these years and I've probably got a great deal wrong.
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Post by gary on Jun 9, 2019 21:16:33 GMT
ABBA Omnibus (a reliable source, I think) says You Owe Me One is Frida and Agnetha. It sounds more Frida-y to me!
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Post by richard on Jun 10, 2019 9:39:17 GMT
Glad I'm not the only one with uncertainties as to who sang what! This is just the sort of discussion I was hoping for when I started this thread.
There's another aspect to this, I think: how much personal preference, if only a bit, for this or that singer might colour how someone perceives the vocals on a track, especially if it's a song and recording he/she particularly likes. (Of course, it might be the other way round: that someone likes a track more because they think their preferred singer is to the fore on it.)
Am I out of order to suggest such a possibility to ABBA fans?
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Post by Michal on Jun 10, 2019 12:12:30 GMT
Agnetha was also said to have a special ability of singing in many different ways, even imitating other singers, especially when recording harmonies. (Remember the Doris Day version of Thank You For The Music - my wife just couldn't believe it is the same singer as on the official version - and she's a professional musician). No wonder we are a little bit confused about who's singing what :-)
By the way… Move On is really a bit of a mystery but it is wonderfully done. Agnetha singing low like this is quite charming as are Frida's high harmonies during the last verse. Pure beauty!
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