Which tracks have or haven’t dated?

Interesting concept, and one I find very difficult to get a handle on. I know this much: if I like a piece of music, I couldn't care less what era it comes from. Are the great standard songs of the '30s dated, or timeless classics?

Now I think about it, 'dated' seems to be mostly applied to pop music, and fashion (clothes).

Is dated about about musical style, I wonder? Remember that song by Pickettywitch 'That Same Old Feeling'? It has always struck me as being of a previous era instead of from the time was written and recorded, the early 70s. So would that constitute being a dated song? (Didn't stop it being a big hit, though.) I know, I'm all questions and no answers!

Provided it doesn't carry a negative or dismissive judgement, I would say Angeleyes sounds 'dated' - it has a late 50s/early 60s feel to me. But mostly I don't really think of it in those terms: it's simply one of ABBA's best tracks as far as I'm concerned.

It's hard to be truly objective about music you've loved for 40-odd years. I'd say everything has dated. It has to be so: the songs were written under contemporary influences, sometimes following trends, sometimes setting them. But they are all pretty much timestamped. Sometimes songs and recordings are so wonderful that they transcend their eras, but they are still dated - if that makes sense. Sometimes a style or sound will come back into fashion, but it's always with a new twist. Disco came back during the 90s and has resurfaced repeatedly since then. How else would Nile Rogers continue to sustain a hit-making career? The 80s glossy synth sounds came back over the last decade or so, much to my delight. It's my favourite era for music. 

While some songs seem timeless and ageless, they just would never be made now. Dancing Queen still fills floors and lifts hearts, but it's still a wonderful recording rooted in 1970s glamour and euphoric nostalgia. The Winner Takes It All is a heartbreak classic but of a style that simply no longer exists. My favourite, The Visitors could only be from the early 80s. Yes, all of these songs could be recorded in more contemporary styles but even they would soon become dated. It'd be interesting to hear these songs through the objective ears of a person born this century. Would ABBA sound as old-fashioned (but brilliant) to them as Ella Fitzgerald sounded to me? Probably.

I agree that instrumentation and arrangements sometimes defy an era. So too does singing. But I'd argue it's rare enough. The way of playing, the choices in arrangements, the recording techniques, the vocal approach.... they all affect the end result to such a degree that fashion and genre remind you of the era of the recording. The girls' singing is quite different to the way pop singers approach vocals now. Their fondness for vibrato is a lot less fashionable now, replaced by those (IMO) tediously laboured R&B influenced "runs," where 200 notes are shoehorned into a section that needs maybe three or four. In turn, Frida and Agnetha's delivery was different to the mannerisms and phrasing of the singers of the 1940s and 50s. Listen to Petula Clarke's cut-glass delivery for reference.

Josef referenced Lay All Your Love On Me, and I'd agree that it's one of those songs that could still sound reasonably fresh because that kind of danceability is still popular. I'd suggest that Voulez-Vous might be even "fresher" because it has a vocal stridency and more diverse instrumentation that can still sometimes be heard in pop records. BUT even disco- and electro-influenced hits have stylistic twists and flourishes that mark them out as modern (and, soon, will mark them out as old hat). We don't seem to get "proper" intros any more: streaming has shortened our attention spans so much that a huge number of pop hits start very quickly.

I think this might be why I often welcome new covers* of ABBA songs. It keeps their music alive. Yes, we'll all miss the beautiful vocals/instrumentation/production of the sublime originals, but they sometimes deliver the goods. For example:





* absolutely not from the Mamma bloody Mia franchise or any of those Channel 5 tackfests.

" Super Trouper ", " Money Money Money " and " Does Your Mother Know " all sound dated especially the first song which I don't like at all and I don't know why people think it is a classic when it clearly is not. Personally, I never listen to it and can do without the puerile chorus. " Under Attack " is also very weak and of its time. " Rock Me ", " I Wonder " " I'm A Marionette " and " Lovers ( Live A Little Longer ) " all sound old and never grabbed me. " Summer Night City " also has dated. Hometime I'm sorry but I don't agree with your views as I think the songs you mentioned still sound fresh as they did all those years ago.

Hometime, I think I grasped your views the wrong way so I apologise. DMYK is a waste of a song and its B-side KOF should have been released as an A-side. ST as I have said is "Euro-pop" a term I do not like to connect ABBA with and that is the reason why I don't like it. The song does not float my boat at all. Frida's vocals within MMM are too Cabaret-style for my liking. If my criticism is a little too harsh then shoot me. You mentioned that TWTIA is of a style that no longer exists. I don't think that is the case. That song is very special to me and is very beautiful yet achingly sad in its melody and vocal arrangement. TWTIA has not dated and still manages to tug at my heartstrings everytime I hear it. I was very upset at Orf's comments about it but as you say we can't all like the same songs. Likewise MO, STMF, AA, OOU, MLML, F and C consist of beautiful melodies and vocals. It is a shame that particular style doesn't exist because today's contemporary styles and tastes are pure garbage. I couldn't care less for today's music charts as there is nobody that I particularly like.

According to Carl Magnus Palm's book " The Complete Recording Sessions " Benny and Bjorn appear to be very critical of their compositions. In the book they admitted that ONLY FIVE of their songs were rated as good. These were " SOS ", " Dancing Queen ", " Knowing Me Knowing You ", " The Name Of The Game " and " The Winner Takes It All ". You have to admit that all are in a league of their own and all these have a special place in my heart as these songs are undisputed and accomplished anthems.

OK, I am a fine one to talk as I keep slagging off " Super Trouper " but each to one's tastes. I forgot to mention that IHAD and TFTPOO have really aged and stick out like a sore thumb within the respective albums as with ABBA's very early material. " You Owe Me One " is probably the worst track ABBA ever recorded.

I am truly sorry if I have offended you or other fans with my thoughts but it is down to a matter of personal taste.

Hi Hometime, sometimes my senstivity gets the better of me. Your points are spot on and I respect them. It is a good thing for discussions on forums to maybe become a little heated and lively from time to time. One way to air our grievances I suppose. On the whole, we are a friendly bunch of ABBA fans. I am very grateful to you for expressing your concern back in July when I was upset and thought of not contributing to the ABBAChat forum anymore. I may have been a little harsh with my earlier comments. I also, think that " If It Wasn't For The Nights " is a forgotten gem. It too has a beautiful melody and sublime vocals from the girls. Why wasn't it released as a single ? ABBA's record company " Epic " made a few blunders and on occasions didn't consider fully which song was a contender for potential  single release. Personally, I would have preferred " Cassandra " to have merited single release because of its traditional ABBA style vocals. However, " The Day Before You Came " is nothing short of outstanding. Very haunting in every way and leaves you to draw your own conclusions. I actually love melancholy ABBA as opposed to uplifting ABBA. They knew how to compose, produce and record the perfect break up song. KMKY, TWTIA, OOU, and WAISAD are very fine examples. I fully appreciate you have your own favourites and respect that.

Josef, I respect your thoughts.

First of all, hi, I'm Tony *e-handshake*  I know these forums require handles but Hometime is the name under which I release music (new single coming soon, but I digress) and just one of those necessary names for the internet. I'm happy for anyone to use my real name, if they prefer. 

Secondly, I am delighted you've stayed on the forum. I totally get that anxiety is a bitch to deal with, and I hope everyone can bear with you on that front. As for harsh words, nah. I have seen far less respect for other people's views expressed on this and the older forum, so relax - you're doing fine, you're one of us. 

Yes! If It Wasn't For The Nights is the number one that got away. I think Polar has to share some of the guilt for neglecting its potential. At the time, I too would have preferred Cassandra as a single. I really didn't get The Day Before You Came until I saw the video. I really grew to love it and it is now my second favourite song behind The Visitors.  Although it doesn't have a chorus or any unision singing, it is one of the few songs that showcases all four talents quite clearly: Agnetha's interpretive powers/acting skill; Frida's remarkable vocal versatility and creativity; Benny's instrumental genius; and Bjorn's  (by then) incredible lyrical prowess. It's one of the few songs where the covers have been especially respectful and thoughtful. As much as I detest the whole Mamma Mia thing, I think Meryl's cover is just beautiful. 

As for liking the melancholy more than the uplifting stuff, I am in full agreement. Which is why the pitch black heart of The Visitors keeps it on the top of the albums heap for me. But ABBA had a sublime ability to sneak shades of sadness into apparently uplifting tracks. If It Wasn't For The Nights has everyone dancing euphorically before those lyrics about loneliness and abandonment kick in. 

And, Josef, you get a whole bag of jellybabies and a go on my scooter for loving Lovers as much as I do. It is a slinky little gem in which Frida gets to unleash her incredible foxiness. If only they had a mix with the BVs mixed back a tad, they'd have had another single contender.

Richard, you're right about what constitutes "dated" - pop is peculiarly hung up on it. The same thing goes for cover versions: in pop, a cover is often deemed lazy but a classical musician tackling Verdi or Mahler? Why, well done sir! It's daft and hypocritical.

I initially liked IHAD but not so now. It’s not the melody it’s the lyrics which I dislike but the lyrics did not stop it becoming an Abba song which reached number one in the Uk for Westlife at the turn of the century..the first number one of the new century and millennium was written by the Abba boys. That’s a first in the UK at least. Not done by any other artist before and can only next be done in the year 3000. Bit of a wait. 😉

Or the eventual release of I still have faith in you and Don’t shut me down. 😱

Hi Tony, " I Am Just A Girl " is probably the most dated ABBA song. To be honest I haven't really listened to ABBA's very first studio album " Ring Ring ". I have heard " Ring Ring ", " He Is Your Brother " and " Nina Pretty Ballerina ". All these songs are quite innocent pop ditties. ABBA have of course matured since those days. Their early material probably would suffer with the music of today. I'm sorry to all the fans who like these songs.

Hi Josef, I would like to thank you for your support. My anxiety issues are partly due to the grim world of today and life certainly doesn't get an easier. I immerse myself with all the things I love including my passion for ABBA. I would also, like to thank Tony for his kind wishes and support. As I've mentioned to Tony I haven't listened to " Ring Ring " ( ABBA's first studio album ) that much but I do actually like ( as you ) HH,NPB and RR. IAJAG has dated terribly and is a contender for " 2019 dated ABBA casualties ". Also, IHAD and TFTPOO have suffered. Can you remember ( this was quite a few years ago ) but there was a kind of documentary broadcast regarding 20 of ABBA's singles and how they would " fit in " in today's chart ( that was in 2004 ) and do you know which song came out on top of the pile ? No not DQ but MM. I was quite surprised. The following songs all were quite high in this poll, TACOM, SOS, TWTIA, C, DQ and MM because they are all bonafide classics. There were a few surprises too, I would have thought that KMKY, TNOTG, TDBYC, OOU, F and GGG would have scored higher than IHAD and TYFTM ( which I still love to bits ). All these too are in a league of their own and definitely superior to IHAD. Quite a few celebrities took part in this television programme and expressed their admiration of ABBA and their music including Lulu, Daniel Bedingfield, Andy Bell from Erasure and many others. I enjoy watching these type of programmes as they are rather interesting. I used to look forward to perusing the previous ABBA forum which closed down and it is a shame that the archives are lost. Never mind, we will eventually hear ABBA's new material. Once again, thank you.