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Post by Michal on Feb 20, 2022 9:47:48 GMT
I wouldn't say that "Frida's voice has survived in better shape than Agnetha's". Agnetha's voice obviously got weaker with passing years, but it sounds very young to me. Frida on the other hand has retained more strenght in her voice but you can tell it is an elderly woman singing. Especially in songs such as Bumblebee. In fact, I noticed the aging in her voice much earlier. The Morning Has Broken from the Georg Wadenius' Reconnection album released in 2010 is a good example. Actually, the only song where she sounds almost like no time has passed is No Doubt About It and it still makes me wonder how she managed to belt it out that way. It's 1984 back again. HOMETIME correctly pointed out that it also depends on the key, if we hear more of Agnetha or Frida during the joint vocal parts. Agnetha tends to be more prominent in higher parts and Frida in lower ones, which has to do with their respective ranges. And maybe Frida is more dominant now, because during the 70s, the tendency was to push both singers as high as possible during the recordings sessions, while Voyage is generally in lower keys (understandably, as they're no longer able to hit the high notes). |
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Post by Michal on Feb 20, 2022 9:55:53 GMT
I feel sorry for her, having to negotiate the sort of stodgy lines she'd likely never naturally come out with in Swedish, let alone a second language (pop lyrics aren't normal speech, but they have to have some semblance of real-world credibility about them, and the best are often casual but concentrated, like haikus): "I think it would be fair to say you look bewildered", "The reproach in her eyes is imagined" - we're not far off "Pieces of the fatted calf" territory. She probably doesn't feel such lines sound awkward BECAUSE it is not in Swedish. I certainly don't realize it (until somebody points it out and even then it usually doesn't bother me, unless it is an exceptionally awful line) especially as my English has rapidly deteriorated in recent years. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Feb 20, 2022 11:43:29 GMT
I'd love if an interviewer would ask Bjorn about the evolution of his lyrics. Up to 1980, they were very poppy and (mostly) without some of the intricate and ornate detail that cropped in later releases. Sometimes that level of detail pays off: The Visitors, The Day Before You Came, for example. I started to notice the changes with Gemini. Take Too Much Love Is Wasted for instance. It's really scene-driven and the detail makes the pop flow of the song very sluggish. Then, on the next album, there's the ridiculous Ghost Town, a totally bananas, detail-heavy scene where the car engine won't "ignite." With Josefin Nilsson, we have art snobs and dressing gowns and pigeons and esoteric situations where "whales have ceased to sing." So far removed from pop, that they could be an experiment by a dramatist or a screenwriter.
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Post by chron on Feb 20, 2022 22:27:50 GMT
Sorry to see Edmund leave us again. He had been doing so brilliantly since his return. It was brave of him to take on the megarate because it carried the risk of some of his favourite songs being critcised. I don't agree with him that people have been cruel. But perception is everything: if he feels it, he feels it. Feeling a bit responsible for Eddie's latest departure in the wake of the latest megarate results, I was wondering if things had got a bit needle-y this time around, which made me go and look again at some of the comments from the old one. Well, the exchanges from there quoted below seem to show that people felt more relaxed about what they could say and the way in which it could be said, were not worried about offending someone. The following is taken from near the start of the rundown, as people began to relish or fear the prospect of what was going to end up being propped up by I Saw It In The Mirror at the bottom of the pile: Nothing over-the-top there, just some engaging, 'tasty' exchanges. A forum loses a lot if back-and-forth like this has to be watered down. |
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Post by chron on Feb 21, 2022 3:19:07 GMT
I'd love if an interviewer would ask Bjorn about the evolution of his lyrics. Up to 1980, they were very poppy and (mostly) without some of the intricate and ornate detail that cropped in later releases. Sometimes that level of detail pays off: The Visitors, The Day Before You Came, for example. I started to notice the changes with Gemini. Take Too Much Love Is Wasted for instance. It's really scene-driven and the detail makes the pop flow of the song very sluggish. Then, on the next album, there's the ridiculous Ghost Town, a totally bananas, detail-heavy scene where the car engine won't "ignite." With Josefin Nilsson, we have art snobs and dressing gowns and pigeons and esoteric situations where "whales have ceased to sing." So far removed from pop, that they could be an experiment by a dramatist or a screenwriter. Great post. I've been thinking about the evolution of Bjorn's lyric-writing style on and off for a while. When he got it right, in the 'golden period', the songs were often acmes of less-is-more effectiveness. Knowing Me, Knowing You hasn't got the finicky detail that Don't Shut Me Down has, yet covers much more emotional ground, is full and deep and emotion-provoking because it leaves the listener to fill out a lot of the scene. I can 'see' the house and rooms in KMKY more clearly because Bjorn's not trying to paint of his version of it in my head, he's leaving me to flesh it out with the memory of a house I've known myself, which creates a personal connection. With Don't Shut Me Down on the other hand, I apparently need to know that the bench Agnetha's character is sitting on is wooden (which interferes with the image of the metal bench that I have in my mind's eye from the memory of a park I used to live near). Bjorn seems to have practised a sort of version of Hemingway's 'iceberg' approach to writing on some of his best mid-period songs ("You could omit anything if you knew that you omitted, and the omitted part would strengthen the story and make people feel something more than they understood"). KMKY's lyrics are economical but concentrated, nothing is included that hinders momentum; emotion and empathy resonate strongly precisely because the singer's regret and what-have-you is outlined and not filled in. Compare that with Don't Stand Me Down: faff about lighting, background figures, uncomfortable furniture, several seconds and a whole line wasted on a shrug-worthy observation ("I believe it would be fair to say you look bewildered"). It's fussier writing; possibly Bjorn regards it as more 'writerly' writing, but for me it's showy and less effective. Maybe I've being doing Stig a disservice down the years; his name is in the writing credits of quite a few of what I think are ABBA's best songs (KMKY, Dancing Queen, My Love, My Life, That's Me, The Name Of The Game, Move On). Maybe the wily old popster helped constrain Bjorn's authorial ambitions a bit for the better during that glory time when he was chipping in with ideas for songs and lyrics. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Feb 21, 2022 9:44:13 GMT
That "I think it would be fair to say" line is actually kinda funny: I can imagine the guy opening the door, seeing his tantrum-prone ex and going "WTF?!" If there's a new album, maybe there should be a song about the application process for restraining orders.
I totally agree about KMKY. Those first eight words just plunge the listener into the story. Of course, Frida's delivery is the other half of that double whammy (equally restrained, zero hystrionics). Less really is more sometimes. I wonder how a great song like Story Of A Heart might have worked out if written in that period. Hands on oars and 'the back of a bus' probably wouldn't have featured?
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Post by Michal on Feb 21, 2022 10:51:57 GMT
chron , HOMETIME , will you stop it, guys?! I've never realized there was something wrong and now you're spoiling the songs for me!  By the way, I've never been a fan of Gemini's second album (and now I wonder if I ever have been a fan of the first), so I hardly ever paid attention to the lyrics. So I searched for it today and you're right... Ghost Town features one of the weirdest lyric I've ever heard.
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Post by Michal on Feb 21, 2022 10:58:51 GMT
Maybe I've being doing Stig a disservice down the years; his name is in the writing credits of quite a few of what I think are ABBA's best songs (KMKY, Dancing Queen, My Love, My Life, That's Me, The Name Of The Game, Move On). Maybe the wily old popster helped constrain Bjorn's authorial ambitions a bit for the better during that glory time when he was chipping in with ideas for songs and lyrics. Hasn't Stig provided only the titles? I think it was that way at least in the case of Knowing Me, Knowing You, Move On and The Name Of The Game. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Feb 21, 2022 11:15:44 GMT
chron , HOMETIME , will you stop it, guys?! I've never realized there was something wrong and now you're spoiling the songs for me! But the way, I've never been a fan of Gemini's second album (and now I wonder if I ever have been a fan of the first), so I hardly ever paid attention to the lyrics. So I searched for it today and you're right... Ghost Town features one of the weirdest lyric I've ever heard. Aw, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to spoil it for anyone. I actually prefer the second Gemini album. It feels poppier and lighter. TLC is great fun (and, now that I think of it, from the same bloodline as No Doubt About It). I Am The Universe and Nearly There are a great tunes too. Only Ghost Town and I'm a B1tch When I See Red are let down by their lyrics (and Karin's OTT delivery). |
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Post by chron on Feb 21, 2022 16:48:11 GMT
Hasn't Stig provided only the titles? I think it was that way at least in the case of Knowing Me, Knowing You, Move On and The Name Of The Game. I'd imagine that even if Stig's concrete input was limited to that, Bjorn would've still used him as a sounding board for ideas and lyrics from time to time. I'll have to check in one or other of CMP's books. |
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Post by lycka on Feb 21, 2022 17:30:40 GMT
It's all a matter of personal opinion but I think the lyrics to DSMD are excellent. The 'I can see you look bewildered etc" lines work on two levels for me (a) for the development of the story in the song and (b) a humorous hint towards the Abbatars - particularly with the chuckle that Agnetha uses in her delivery.
Agnetha's voice has aged, but it lends an extra gravitas to my ears and I think her three lead vocals are great.
Frida's voice has also aged. Not exactly a shocker, as both are in their 70s, but I was more prepared for it. Someone gave the example of her vocals in Morning Has Broken from ten years or so ago. That kind of prepared me for her range on Voyage (which I love).
Changing subject, I did find some of the posts a bit unkind and can understand how Edmund took offence. I'm a relatively new member and was quick to realise how sensitive he is, so worded my comments accordingly. Hopefully he will return to the forum. If you are reading this Edmund, take care of yourself. I always appreciated your posts and will miss them
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Post by HOMETIME on Feb 21, 2022 19:19:03 GMT
Changing subject, I did find some of the posts a bit unkind and can understand how Edmund took offence. I'm a relatively new member and was quick to realise how sensitive he is, so worded my comments accordingly. Hopefully he will return to the forum. If you are reading this Edmund, take care of yourself. I always appreciated your posts and will miss them I have read all four pages of the megarate and I really can't see what could be deemed unkind or cruel? And I certainly couldn't see anything that criticised Edmund personally. In fact, I'd venture to say that people have generally made decent efforts to be sensitive to Edmund, knowing the challenges he deals with. That said, two people might read the same thing very differently. Certainly I'd be grateful if anyone could let me know if they read something that I wrote and found it unkind/mean/insensitive. I'd want to make that up to the offended party quickly. |
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Post by chron on Feb 21, 2022 20:11:30 GMT
You can't keep fishing the meat out of your replies for fear of upsetting a single hypersensitive member. No one has ever posted anything that could be construed as an outright personal dig at Edmund that I can recall, but I have seen him receive lots of support and encouragement - Alan, Tony and Joe have all been especially good in this regard. I really wish him well, but I think it's right for him to think hard about whether online forums are for him; he's had two or three tries of this one, one of the most decent and well-meaning forums you'll find, and has had to leave each time after being provoked by things that haven't seemed to register a flicker on anyone else's seismometer.
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Post by Michal on Feb 22, 2022 19:56:44 GMT
Hasn't Stig provided only the titles? I think it was that way at least in the case of Knowing Me, Knowing You, Move On and The Name Of The Game. I'd imagine that even if Stig's concrete input was limited to that, Bjorn would've still used him as a sounding board for ideas and lyrics from time to time. I'll have to check in one or other of CMP's books. I've read somewhere that by the time of completing The Album Stig's input was limited to inventing the titles. And he had no hand in writing lyrics since Voulez-Vous onwards. |
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Post by Michal on Feb 22, 2022 20:16:46 GMT
...Changing subject, I did find some of the posts a bit unkind and can understand how Edmund took offence. I'm a relatively new member and was quick to realise how sensitive he is, so worded my comments accordingly... It's kind of you to think that way. However, unfortunately it's not easy not to offend Edmund. He left the forum several times already. The last time it was because he thought he was being ignored and felt as an outcast. And I have a suspicion it may have been because some of us (me included) avoided reacting to his posts in order not to make him upset by some unconsciously painful remark. And the truth is this is a place where we should have fun and not a psychoterapeutic group, where we should be constantly worrying about not saying something inappropriate. I hope Edmund is fine but I'm afraid that unless he gets over his hypersensitivity, he should maybe really avoid this type of social interaction. |
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Post by lycka on Feb 22, 2022 21:21:58 GMT
You may well be right Michal. It was just my observation as a relatively new member,but obviously I was not aware of a history of leaving the forum.
There is a saying 'if you haven't anything nice to say then don't say it at all'. Just saying, nothing more. Edmund can still read these posts, even though he has left the forum. I hope he is okay. However I think we should all now park the topic and move on.
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Post by chron on Feb 22, 2022 21:24:54 GMT
I've read somewhere that by the time of completing The Album Stig's input was limited to inventing the titles. And he had no hand in writing lyrics since Voulez-Vous onwards. Yep, dug out Bright Lights, Dark Shadows earlier and a passage in that supports this. The Album was the last release to carry songs containing lyrical input from Stig. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2022 22:35:11 GMT
Michal and Lycka, I appreciate your comments. I agree, this isn't a psychotherapy session but a friendly forum. However repeated swipes on favourite songs of forum members is becoming tedious. Yes, I am hyper-sensitive and I have tried to toughen up but it is a struggle. I would learn to accept criticism of a particular song if the other party would learn to call it a truce and not throw jibes all the time. That is not considerate or polite behaviour.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2022 14:19:34 GMT
Ring Ring
1. Ring Ring
2. Another Town Another Train
3. Nina Pretty Balerina
Waterloo
1. My Mama Said
2. Waterloo
3. Honey Honey
ABBA
1. SOS
2. Mamma Mia
3. Bang a Boomerang
Arrival
1. Knowing Me Knowing You
2. Dancing Queen
3. Money Money Money
The Album
1. Take a Chance on Me
2. Eagle
3. The Name of the Game
Voulez Vous
1. As Good as New
2. Kisses of Fire
3. Voulez Vous
Super Trouper
1. Lay All Your Love on Me
2. On and On and On
3. Andante, Andante
The Visitors
1. When All is Said and Done
2, One of Us
3. The Visitors
Voyage
1. Don't Shut Me Down
2. I Still Have Faith in You
3. Ode to Freedom
Non Album
1. Summer Night City
2. Elaine
3. Gimme Gimme Gimme
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