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Post by Agatha on Dec 30, 2022 21:09:19 GMT
Hi,
Which Abba song is quintessentially Abba in your opinion?
I think it’s Knowing Me Knowing You. It’s a serious song about relationships. It has those lovely Nordic sounding chords at the beginning of it. The video saw Abba in snowy Sweden, and in the studio the girls did their face close-ups at an angle thing. It was included on the quintessential Arrival album. The song has lots of Abba kitsch and drama while at the same time being an amazingly well-crafted song that instantly became a pop classic.
What do you think? 😊
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Post by evilincarnate on Dec 31, 2022 2:52:03 GMT
We all have our favourites, but I think most would agree that "Knowing Me, Knowing You" is one of ABBA's very best.
An incredibly well-crafted song that is immediately catchy but also resonates on an emotional level. Fine songwriting, inventive production and stellar vocals - a perfect song that I would not change in any way - i.e. it qualifies as quintessential.
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Post by evilincarnate on Dec 31, 2022 2:55:12 GMT
Further to my post above, other obvious contenders would be:
"Mamma Mia"
"S.O.S."
"Dancing Queen"
"Name Of The Game"
"Take A Chance On Me"
"Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!"
"The Winner Takes It All"
"When All Is Said And Done"
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Post by gary on Dec 31, 2022 11:20:47 GMT
Yes, it would be Knowing Me, Knowing You for me as well. There are others that come close, particularly Dancing Queen, but KMKY is perfect, and has everything that is wonderful about ABBA. They were at their songwriting peak at the time of Arrival and The Album.
Slightly contradicting that, I always thought that the two consecutive singles of Fernando and Dancing Queen were quintessential ABBA. One fast, one slow, the sales pinnacle of their career, and both sublime tunes.
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Post by Agatha on Dec 31, 2022 12:39:19 GMT
I agree Gary about Fernando and Dancing Queen. 1975 and 1976 were such incredible years for Abba. I’ve always found it interesting that in general Bjorn and Benny seem to rate their later songs more highly both in composition and production but I prefer the less-produced sound of the Abba and Arrival albums.
Evilincarnate (!) I love the inclusion of WAISD in your list. I love the lyrics of that song so much.
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Post by richard on Dec 31, 2022 13:00:27 GMT
Many ABBA songs I regard as quintessential. Some I love; others not so much.
Dancing Queen, of course. But I admire it more than love it, so I realise I'm in a tiny minority of fans who think this way.
I agree with those who rate KMKY so highly. Wonderful track.
Over the years I've come to appreciate how much many of ABBA's songs rely on their arrangements, over and above their melodic qualities. For me, the arrangement often is the song when it comes to ABBA. But I'd pick out Fernando and Chiquita as having a lovely, natural melodic flow to them, anyway.
Nowadays, perhaps TWTIA is regarded by many as the quintessential ABBA song, but it's not one of my top favourites.
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Post by joseph on Dec 31, 2022 13:19:12 GMT
So many qualify but for the sake of variety I'll choose Take A Chance On Me not least because it speaks for itself. Come on, it's infectiously bubbly, it just sweeps you up. It has 'ABBA' stamped all over it, if you know what I mean.
But as I said, many others qualify.
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Post by evilincarnate on Dec 31, 2022 14:49:45 GMT
I concur with the comments above.
I think all of the songs mentioned achieve the requirements of the archetypal 3-and-a-half-minute pop song but beyond this, the majority of them move you on some level - eliciting joy, sorrow or just a knee jerk response to bop (often all of these reactions at once).
Some of my absolute favourite ABBA tracks would not qualify as quintessential ("The Visitors", "I Let The Music Speak", "Should I Laugh Or Cry", "The Day Before You Came") but the major singles really tick all the boxes - basically most of 'ABBA Gold".
Honorable mentions - in addition to the obvious big hitters - would be "Hey, Hey Helen", "When I Kissed The Teacher", "Tiger", "As Good As New" and strangely enough, "Elaine" - all fantastic pop songs that could have been radio hits.
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Post by richard on Dec 31, 2022 18:52:12 GMT
I don't really draw a distinction between 'album track' and 'single' as I enjoy listening to ABBA. But probably 'quintessential' is more easily applied to the singles - the more obviously pop-y songs. But I agree with Phil (evilincarnate) that there are a number of album tracks that could have had 'quintessential' applied to them, especially had they been singles. Edited to fade on the slow "If it... wasn't...for the nights", that song would've been a candidate for me.
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Post by Agatha on Dec 31, 2022 20:21:40 GMT
Really interesting points made above. I always thought I’ve Been Waiting for You was a fantastic song ‘tucked away’ from the singles list. It was used brilliantly in Mamma Mia 2.
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Post by joseph on Dec 31, 2022 22:31:31 GMT
What am I thinking? It's SOS! Of course it is! That build up to the chorus, the chorus itself, Agnetha's plaintive tone, Benny's flourishes on the piano. Everything. That CHORUS! It's SO ABBA!
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Post by evilincarnate on Jan 1, 2023 2:27:07 GMT
I agree with Richard that "If It Wasn't For The Nights" (in edited form) would qualify - it's an extremely well executed pop song but just needs to be a little more concise for radio/and or the casual consumer. Yes Agatha, "I've Been Waiting For You" is definitely single material (it was indeed an A-side in Australia!) and is one of my favourites as well. Even "Bang A Boomerang" does what it should as a single but if I were to be overly critical, these two aren't necessarily top-drawer ABBA, in terms of hitting all the marks in the way that "S.O.S." and "Knowing Me, Knowing You" undoubtedly do. Even "Does Your Mother Know?", which is definitely not a classic in my opinion, qualifies as a 'first-rate' pop song. (Believe it or not, I have a colleague who is a casual fan of the band and she has often cited this as her favourite ABBA song. Goodness gracious!  ) |
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Post by gary on Jan 1, 2023 15:54:05 GMT
Hard to argue against SOS. Fast bits, slow bits, totally catchy, and the best vocal ever by the best female singer ever! And it made me a fan, for what it’s worth…
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Post by richard on Jan 1, 2023 17:33:40 GMT
Ooh! Cheeky and provocative, Gary! Maybe it's the festive booze talking. 😄. Just kidding! Hope the Frida fans here have a sense of humour - while still acknowledging how great Agnetha is, of course. (But maybe not quite as great as Frida!)
As Ricky Gervais might say: "They're just jokes!"
And SOS, yes, fantastic!
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Post by joseph on Jan 1, 2023 22:04:45 GMT
Whilst I can see why Does Your Mother Know was released my problem with it (if you can call it that) is more to do with the lyrics. Apart from being a tad cringe I was rather tired of the honey/funny rhyme. And brave..yeah..and although successful I'd rather have heard Frida sing lead. Björn's voice works wonders in backing vocals but apart from one or two album tracks I'm not keen on his voice as lead. Still, I bet he was chuffed to actually have a lead and do his strut, take centre stage for a change. Fair play to him. He deserved it.
Does Your Mother Know could never be called quintessential ABBA in the same way SOS is though.
Mamma Mia should be such, and it is, but it's ruined for me by over familiarity and those damn films. The same way some feel about Dancing Queen which is such a shame as they are both great songs.
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Post by joseph on Jan 1, 2023 22:08:39 GMT
Incidentally...
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Post by evilincarnate on Jan 2, 2023 3:10:29 GMT
“Does Your Mother Know", in my opinion, is a more than serviceable pop single and clearly did well on the charts. Many people remember this track with fondness so they can't all be wrong. I was a child when it was released as a single and recall being embarrassed by it since I didn't care for Bjorn's lead vocal, and the lyrics made me cringe. I've come to appreciate some of the lines over the years, particularly since they lend themselves so well to a gay narrative as presented by REM's live performance some years back. There is a sense of humour that can't be denied. Also, there is no doubting that the track bounces along at a fair pace so even though it's not one of my faves, I absolutely understand it being released and also performed in concert (although I always skip it when viewing 1979's 'In Concert' or listening to "Live At Wembley'). I'm really intrigued by Joseph's idea of Frida having possibly performed the lead vocal - that could have really been something. Now I want to hear it! I definitely rate Bjorn as a superb harmony and backing vocalist - he's especially effective on tracks like "Knowing Me, Knowing You", "Summer Night City" and "Angeleyes". I sometimes think he is the 'fourth voice'. He never seems to get sufficient credit for his contribution to the vocal blend we all know and love, which incidentally, is alive and well on 'Voyage'. Thankfully, my love for "Mamma Mia" has not diminished over the years since I have never seen the stage show or either of the movies (I flatly refuse on all counts). Even when one of the films is on television (like last night for instance) I avoid them at all costs. The song is a blueprint for ABBA's finest singles - it simply does everything right! Flawless in my opinion. Whilst it's been difficult to avoid the ubiquity of "Dancing Queen" over the years, my regard for it remains intact. Strangely enough, it was never a favourite of mine during the band's heyday but as an adult, I really came to appreciate the intricacies and brilliance of the song as a whole. It deserves 'classic' status and rightfully was a global number one charting single (perhaps not everywhere but I'm not an expert in chart placings). Gary, I also adore "S.O.S." and consider Agnetha's lead vocal to be one of the all-time greatest as well but... Frida is the greatest singer of all time! Hahahahaha!! I honestly love them both, but Frida just pips Agnetha for me in terms of range and versatility. I also always considered Frida to be the superior vocalist live and she definitely steals the show on 'Voyage' but that doesn't detract from all that Agentha has contributed over the years - she really is brilliant ( and only second best  ). Thankfully, I think we can all respect each other's different opinions here without any bloodshed and just have a laugh with each other. I truly love all four members of the band and it's just splitting hairs to 'rate' them so I'll leave it there for now. Happy New Year everyone! |
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Post by richard on Jan 2, 2023 14:54:42 GMT
Regarding DYMK, I feel about it somewhat the way I do about DDD: great melodically/musically -and quintessential ABBA - but not lyrically. Of course, I always prefer Agnetha and/or Frida taking the lead vocals, but I really don't mind Björn on this. And the girls' backing vocals in the chorus ("Take it easy, better slow down, girl")* are a delight.
Although I do prefer Si to Waterloo to have won the 74 ESC, more generally, I agree with Phil in accepting our sometimes differing opinions in a relaxed way, without offence. And I think ABBAChat is very good in this respect.
Happy New Year!
* This section functions more like a middle eight or bridge - it's not the chorus, of course ("You can dance with me, honey...").
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Post by HOMETIME on Jan 2, 2023 20:48:34 GMT
I guess the 'quintessential ABBA' thing may differ from person to person. Can't say I have any arguments against the songs suggested so far. I think the second chorus of Don't Shut Me Down is quintessential ABBA brought up to date: it's the way that particular vocal blend kicks in. After all those years away, it was right there, shimmering like a diamond.
If Dancing Queen is so widely regarded as the standard bearer, then I think that If It Wasn't For The Nights is a natural successor: a piano-heavy arrangement; a vocal blend that scales the heights and puts the third voice front and centre; the uplifting music acting as a counterpoint to a pretty bleak lyric - the ultimate 'happy sad' song.
I tend to feel that SOS and KMKY work as a set. Loss and heartbreak are at the heart of both songs, but the lyric and vocal delivery put them on opposite sides of the same coin. Agnetha beautifully cries her desolation in a slow verse leading to a huge chorus; Frida's gorgeously smokey resignation leads to a huge chorus - which also comes alive with the glorious A-Haaa call-and-repeat vocals that seem to be an ABBA trademark.
If there are quintessential ABBA songs, is there a quintessential ABBA album? For me, it'd have to be Arrival. Or maybe Super Trouper.
On the subject of Does Your Mother Know, I tend to agree that Frida would have been a better interpreter of that lyric than Bjorn. Her natural sense of humour would have brought the right level of sass to the story. That more abrasive arrangement would have been right in her wheelhouse too. I kinda think that the central point of the lyric is too often missed. Bjorn is clearly not taking advantage of the hormone-driven saucepot dancing into his personal space. Compared with other songs of the era - the creepy and still somehow lauded My Sharona springs to mind - it's a masterclass in consent.
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Post by evilincarnate on Jan 3, 2023 5:03:55 GMT
Hometime, I agree with your comments regarding "Don't Shut Me Down" and almost suggested its inclusion earlier in this thread, but then I even considered "I Still Have Faith In You", which I realise most fans would not consider to be quintessential. With regard to the quintessential ABBA album, I tend to think it would be 'Super Trouper', with 'Arrival' and 'The Album' as strong contenders. (My favourite album is 'The Visitors', which is most definitely not typical ABBA.) Now that it's been suggested, I'm super keen to hear Frida take the lead on "Does Your Mother Know". Imagine if this materialised in the 'Voyage' show? I think Frida would be up for it and the song's narrative would be brought bang up to date. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Jan 3, 2023 11:56:15 GMT
When you think about it, I Still Have Faith In You is quintessential ABBA. Reading back over the discussion, it seems we're conflating quintessential ABBA with stereotypical ABBA? Song for song, ABBA's output is really diverse. Yet when other acts try to mimic ABBA - and, yes, I'm looking at you, Steps - the focus is tightened on the jaunty piano sounds, disco-adjacent rhythms, and close female harmonies. It's as though beauties like The Name Of The Game, The Visitors, Like An Angel Passing Through My Room, The Day Before You Came, Eagle, One Man One Woman, Ode To Freedom and I'm A Marionette could never exist. And yet they are uniquely ABBA entities.
Like you, Phil, The Visitors is my favourite album. Although is contains fewer quintessential/stereotypical ABBA sounds, it seems to embody the group's essence in a very beautiful way. It showcases the four members' contributions brilliantly. Quintessential/stereotypical ABBA is a finite set of sounds preserved in aspic. Real ABBA is a flowing, shifting, chameleonic universe.
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Post by Agatha on Jan 3, 2023 23:57:15 GMT
SOS - definitely quintessential Abba! Joyfully melancholic!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2023 9:51:39 GMT
Quintessential? This suggests well-known and a big hit single.
For me ABBA songs with melacholic lyrics and an upbeat melody.
My choices:
Mamma Mia - melody upbeat throughout and going against the lyrics "I've been cheated by you since I don't know when". The opening line in a very happy sounding song
SOS - Sad, poignant sounding verses with very musically upbeat chorus
Knowing Me Knowing You - a great break up but singalong song. Aha!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2023 8:53:31 GMT
What a brilliant premise for a thread and I'm delighted to have excavated it! Of course, it very much depends on which of the two, slightly different meanings of 'quintessential' you want to hang your hat on: 'the most perfect example' or 'the most typical example'.
No point debating the first: that's very much in the ear of the beholder. (And while the word 'perfect' could be interpreted as a sort-of synonym for 'typical', it's just too loaded.) As for the second, well - NOT Dancing Queen: a bit TOO dancey. Probably not KMKY either: a bit TOO depressing. Ditto SOS. If we really want to pinpoint a single track that reflects the body of work most widely, we're probably looking at something like Mamma Mia. Fairly chirpy but not too tearaway and with an obvious undercurrent of melancholy. Failing that, maybe TACOM - joyously hyper-catchy but still with a strong whiff of unrequited yearning. Or if you wanted to plump for a deep cut, well - that's where IIWFTN probably enters the conversation. Not a personal favourite of mine but it's got ABBA written through it like a stick of pop-rock. And if you wanted a left-field suggestion, how about Kisses of Fire?
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Post by Henry on Nov 17, 2023 14:01:21 GMT
Best song from the early years: SOS
Best song from the following years: DQ and KMKY
Best song from their final years: TWTIA and TDBYC
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Post by johnny on Nov 17, 2023 18:25:14 GMT
The quintessential Abba song has surely got to have melancholic lyrics combined with uptempo melody.
For me, my vote would go to Mamma Mia.
Dancing Queen's lyrics are very joyous and there's really not many ABBA songs like that - Bang a Boomerang and Summer Night City spring to mind.
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Post by johnny on Nov 17, 2023 19:19:33 GMT
Best song from the early years: SOS Best song from the following years: DQ and KMKY Best song from their final years: TWTIA and TDBYC Agree with your Early and Middle Period for Later Years I'd opt for LAYLOM. |
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