ABBA Voyage: General Discussion 2023-24

Is it more of a falsetto (or “head voice” or whatever the polite alternative terminology is for female singers)? Perhaps it’s a bit high for her normal voice.

Also, does anyone know if Frida still smokes? Prior to Voyage I hadn’t really heard Frida properly since Djupa Andetag, and that was more than 20 years before the start of Voyage. I was blown away by how good Frida still sounded. Smoking is known to damage the voice over time - has she given up? Agnetha was seen smoking less often in ABBA and even got involved in an anti-smoking campaign at one point, but was seen doing it herself as late as 1981.

In my opinion, "No Doubt About It" could benefit from elevating Agnetha's vocals in the chorus to sweeten what I consider to be a slightly shrill mix. Don't get me wrong, I love the track but I think it could be even greater. When isolated, Agnetha's vocals sound very circa-1982, which I adore.
I've also never been overly keen on the intro to "No Doubt About It" - I'd prefer more emphasis on the synthesised keyboards, which only become prominent later on. I also wouldn't have started with the chorus - this should have been anticipated during the first verse for maximum effect - and given the song's short running time, I think it's too ubiquitous - almost to the point of being annoying.
Despite these observations/suggestions, I do still consider the song a 'winner' and think it should have been included in the 'Voyage' show.


"Bumblebee" slightly frustrates me because I think it's a lovely tune with a great arrangement and truly stunning lead vocal from Frida. However, climate issues never resonate well when inserted in pop lyrics. I can't help but feel that the lyric undermines what could have been an absolute highlight if we, as the listeners, could have been lured in with a 'dagger through the heart' poignancy. In order to have a visceral response, we need to be moved and as much as Frida's vocal goes some way to achieving this, it's difficult to become invested.
Someone on this forum mentioned a while ago that the titular bumblebee was perhaps a metaphor for other forms of loss and that perhaps Frida drew upon her own life circumstances when delivering such a passionate, heartfelt vocal. I realise Frida would be naturally attracted to an environmental message, but I just wish Bjorn had given this more consideration and allowed for Frida to really connect with the listener in a more emotional way. If the lyric had dealt with the loss of love or human life as opposed to "the hum of bumblebees", I think it could have been an absolute highlight of the album. A lost opportunity in my opinion.
For the record, I adore bumblebees and have the pleasure of them regularly visiting my rose garden - I must see at least half a dozen every day of Spring and Summer but I don't necessarily want their plight documented in pop music.

Yes and the re-hash of Just a Notion. It's like after the first two brilliant songs they were running out of ideas. Just Saying.


Evilincarnate - Julian Lennon's Saltwater is a good song about Climate Change and this from over 30 years ago.

Anneke, I guess it's a matter of opinion. I tend to prefer the more natural approach concerning the vocals on 'Voyage' and believe this was informed by Benny's current tastes. It's interesting to me that all manner of tricks were pulled in their productions of the past, during a time that Agnetha and Frida were considered to be at their peak vocal-wise. I'm sure their present-day vocals could have been manipulated (some have suggested that has occurred in part) to eradicate any pitch issues or harmony disparities, but I tend to favour a recognition of their advancing years, particularly in terms of voice maturation. 

Many fans have cited "Don't Shut Me Down" and "I Still Have Faith In You" as the best tracks on 'Voyage' (I'm torn on this issue) but just as many have criticised "I Can Be That Woman" and "Keep An Eye On Dan", relegating them to sub-par status (for the record, I love them both). Ultimately, it's all subjective.

I'm in absolute agreement with the banjo (or whatever instrument it is) at the beginning of "No Doubt About It" - it's an immediate turn-off for me, when the song itself is actually impressive. With regard to the other derivative references, I think they're quite deliberate and somewhat amusing. I don't think for a moment that they were running out of ideas - I think they were paying homage to their legacy and keeping a firm eye on the upcoming 'Voyage' show - i.e. highlighting the past in canny fashion.



Johnny, "Just A Notion" bothers me in the sense that current vocals weren't recorded, except for the coda section. I think both ladies could have more than handled the requirements of the song, and in my opinion, improved upon the original track parts. It would have also given Bjorn an opportunity to reconsider the lyrics and Benny to actually create distinct verses as opposed to a series of choruses, but it is what it is...

No offence but I consider "Saltwater" to be one of the worst songs of all time - absolutely hideous. It was with shame that I first listened to Frida's cover version in the 90's and I never quite recovered from that. Definitely filed away and never to be revisited.

I'm not sure I hear that particular similarity myself, jj , but I think you're on to something. More of the melodies on Voyage seem to have their roots in that more musical/classical/folk hybrid that Benny has grown to love over the years - it feels very Swedish. It's in the time signatures too: they seem to drift into waltz and martial kinds of rhythms. ISHFIY, Bumblebee, Ode To Freedom especially.

The mixing and the mastering on the album as a whole is slightly off for me. Everything is slightly woolier than Michael B Tretow would have allowed back in the day. I don't have a problem with the instrumentation on No Doubt About It, but I do think it could have had more impact if it had opened with an acapella first line, letting the drums and bass kick in just after the first time they hit the title. It could even have nodded to TACOM and/or ST in that respect, if they wanted to be playful with their references. They could have repeated that acapella trick coming out of the slow section later in the song. The mix needs a little more air around the various elements, IMO. I'm not sure I necessarily agree with @undertheapple tree on the song sounding like a Frida solo track. Her solo passages do have that (still remarkable) power and edge that characterised her performances on some of the Shine tracks, but the chorus is unmistakably ABBA to my ears. I hear nods to Elaine and On And On And On in the way the voices mesh.

I fully agree with evilincarnate about Just A Notion. New vocals should have been recorded. I think there's something ever-so-slightly off in the vocal blend on the verse section. I can't put my finger on it. At some points I wonder if Bjorn is very slightly out of tune but I can't imagine that they'd ever let that kind of thing slide. That said, it's fascinating that 1978 vocals don't stick out like a sore thumb against vocals recorded more than 40 years later.

I've noticed that we seem to have more guest entries these days. I'm wondering if Anneke and Henry (there may be others, but they seem like more regular guests) would sign up as forum members? It's great to have more input and Anneke and Henry share some opinions - I reckon they'd get on like a house on fire.

Hometime - the mixing and mastering of Voyage (not first two singles) appears a bit 'off' to me in places too. Perhaps why Frida's vocals dominate in the joint vocals. The engineer has a vital job and they are usually not known.


People's preferences. Nothing is 100% of course but from what I have seen here and elsewhere DSMD and ISHFIY are the favoutites. LT gets the least love. WYDWM and OTF have mainly positive reactions. The others vary. To me, it seems NDAI and ICBTW are the most Marmite.

But if it was out of desperation, why release it as a single? I actually think Benny thinks it’s better than it actually is. There was always some unfinished business with this song.

The single was released two weeks before the album. As HOMETIME noted, it got a lot of airplay on Radio 2, and I would agree that I heard this song more on that station than any of the other three singles. However, it was the least successful of the four proper singles. It peaked two places higher than Little Things (no. 59 versus no. 61) but was only on the chart for a single week.

Little Things was a more superfluous release as it was already on the album, but it managed three weeks on the chart (the same number of weeks as I Still Have Faith In You).

Even having by far the best artwork of the four singles (the ABBATars from Knowing Me, Knowing You) couldn’t help Just A Notion.

Alan -

There does seem to be unfinished business with JAN but that doesn't mean the end product was great (okay imo).

As for Single Releases, any single after Voyage was released was never going to do well. We've had this discussion about what should have been singles.

As you and Hometime have said it does seem to have got a lot of Radio play and more than the other singles. I put this down to two things.

1. The first two songs, MUCH BETTER, were released at the same time. Their airplay split. If only one was released I am guessing it would have got the most airplay.
2. Little Things might have been the first ABBA Christmas song but 4th single from Voyage and more importantly, not in the same league as the uptempo Christmas Classics.


When You Danced With Me proved to be very popular with Streaming - but only available after JAN. That might have got more airplay if released instead of JAN

BAAB- I am not familiar with BAO. Sorry. I only know one song, Story of the Heart. That seems to me to be a protype for DSMD. More musical/theatrical verses and and more traditionall pop chorus.

Voyage has a whole seems to be The Visitors Plus. The "plus" being traditional music Benny likes and some more poppy stuff thrown in. I don't know about BAO as a whole as I only know that one song.

Benny does appear to be the driving force. Bjorn wrote lyrics to the music he heard. And the girls just sang them. 😀

I don't think Agnetha is in the background. Their voices blend in a lower register. In the old days Frida was struggling to get up there with Agnetha and this gave that special sound. I can be that woman could have been a abba classic. It's too heavy: starting with the piano in minor and Bjorn's clunky lyrics. A dog called Tammy? Really. It's all too much. Domestic violence, a drinking problem. Agnetha's great vocals save the song. When she sings: Oh god I am sorry for the waisted years she gets to me each time. Great backing vocals by Frida and Agnetha.

The same with KAEOD; great storytelling by Agnetha and Frida joins her. So far so good. The chorus kicks in with that cheap synth arrangement. What s shame.

Still those two are much better than Ode to freedom (far to classical to be an Abba song) , Bumblebee and NDAI. When they released JAN as the 3 single I knew the rest of them wasn't strong enough. LT was released because it was a christmas song but so traditional and lackluster that it wasn't played this year on Christmas.

So Thank you Abba for Don't shut me down the only Abba song that deserves to be up there with other great songs. Thanks for ISHFIY because it's a good album track and thanks somehow for ICBTW and KAEOD.

I think Bjorn does over emphasize unnecessary sometimes with the words in his Lyrics,but, for moi, some of his best lyrics are on 'Voyage' and especially with ICBTW l particularly like the line "Screw You'

Just stumbled across this Wonderful video off
YouTube of SNC, always liked those outfits

It feels a little like the pendulum has swung from joy (the early days of Voyage's release) to criticism. A healthy thing, I think. Too much fawning makes us look like ninnies. But some of the comments make me wonder how early people fell out of love with the kind of thing ABBA finally delivered: Bjorn's penchant for lyrics that read like stage direction dates all the way back to songs like Our Last Summer and The Day Before You Came. I think working on Chess pushed him even further. Those minute details started to become more visible on the Gemini and Josefin Nilsson albums. They're at full throttle on Story Of A Heart. How many pop songs make references to dressing gowns, the back of a bus and that ridiculous storyline in Ghost Town?! Benny's drift from pop was clear from The Visitors onwards. 

If ABBA had continued in the 80s and 90s, I wonder whether the Gemini and Nilsson albums are indicative of what we'd have gotten? Voyage feels a bit like it's progress from those records. 

I suppose I get why some people are not keen on Ode To Freedom because it's not the pop they expect from ABBA. IMO, it's not political: I think it's more philosophical. I love it. I get that people don't like the alcoholism theme of I Can Be That Woman. While some of the lyrics and the scene-setting are a bit heavy-handed, I admire the bravery in addressing the theme (especially from writers who had such issues themselves and became sober). I love it. And I love the zest and drive of No Doubt About It. The only thing I dislike about Bumblebee is the inclusion of flutes. A personal bugbear. I'm inclined to think we were lucky to get any level of poppiness on Voyage, when the artists are older than those who give up the ghost and drift into big-band jazz-lite albums.

evilincarnate , "Just A Notion" bothers me in the sense that current vocals weren't recorded, except for the coda section.

The vocals in the coda or outro section of Just a Notion weren't rerecorded, they are originals too. This has been confirmed by an associate of the cover band 'Arrival' who recorded and mixed their version of the song ('Fredrik Andersson').

I directly asked if those lyrics existed in the original full length demo version recorded by ABBA.

Specifically here are his answers:

"The version that is now official is pretty identical to what I heard 20 years ago. There are some additional lyrics in the end that are not present in the Arrival cover, they existed even then. I remember that being a conscious decision at the time, not to do anything with it, to omit them. It felt like a privilege to record the song with Benny’s blessing and with Rutger Gunnarsson participating."

"I can confirm that the vocal arrangement is the same"

JAN is my favourite recording on the Voyage albulm because it recaptures the essence of their early years with cheery sounding songs reminiscent of the Ring Ring/SOS era. I agree it is not the most polished recording on the album and the vocals sounds a bit raw and may have benefitted from from fresh vocals.

I think there are a number of better recordings on Voyage but I am glad they included JAN so that one last time we were carried back to the band's origins.

Best Wishes

Truedogz

Alan , I tried to use the quote function but it didn't work out. I was quoting evilincarnate who suggested that the coda was new vocals created for the contemporary recording on the Voyage album, a widely held beleif. That is the first line of my post.

The rest of my post are quotes from a person familiar with the original 1978 demo by ABBA confirming that those vocals existed in that recording and so they are not new.

Sorry about any confusion, my fault with not knowing how to use the quote function correctly!

So that should end the speculation. The vocals in JAN including the last section are from the 1978 recording.

Best Wishes

Truedogz