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Post by Ed on Apr 7, 2023 11:19:53 GMT
It was a travesty the United Kingdom didn't award ABBA a single point. However they still triumphed. The younger generation and fans of The Eurovision Song Contest seem to forget ABBA participated and won in 1974.
Most of them seem to remember Bucks Fizz winning in 1981. I used to like Bucks Fizz but feel I betrayed ABBA after their popularity waned in the eighties. Bucks Fizz made quite good pop songs but none of the members were prolific songwriters like Bjorn and Benny. ABBA are in a league of their own. Agnetha and Frida can really sing whereas I am not too sure about either Cheryl or Jay. Mike Nolan, Cheryl Baker and Jay Aston continue to record and tour ( now down to a trio ) as " The Fizz ". Things turned sour after they fell out with former bandmate Bobby G who also fronts another Bucks Fizz. Thank goodness ABBA returned to the studio and recorded " Voyage " I always believe through very challenging times ABBA remained good friends with one another especially now.
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Post by gary on Apr 7, 2023 12:26:56 GMT
^
Ed, Jay Aston can definitely sing. Try ‘Easy Love’ and ‘When We Were Young’.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2023 12:41:38 GMT
I am not a Bucks Fizz fan but I think When We Were Young is their best song by far.
Cheryl is more of a backing singer imo. She was when in Coco and to me 8n Bucks Fizz.
Was there tactical voting back on 1974 with the UK jury deciding not too give ABBA points as they felt it was a rival to Olivia Newton John?
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 7, 2023 13:07:04 GMT
Ed, IMO both Cheryl and Jay can sing. If anything, Cheryl is a better singer now than she was in the 80s. Jay is a much less mannered singer now than she was back then (although now she uses too much vibrato for my taste). I definitely rate Bucks Fizz as a group: their Are You Ready and I Hear Talk albums are both excellent. The whole Bobby G debacle is mortifying. The Bucks Fizz story is a bit like The Valley Of The Dolls rewritten as a dodgy Eastenders sub-plot. The latter-day incarnation of The Fizz is not bad: they have a few good songs across their albums (but I think it might be time to move on from Mike Stock as a producer).
Back on topic... Yay! Happy 50th birthday, Waterloo.
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Post by Ed on Apr 8, 2023 9:44:38 GMT
Bucks Fizz are OK but I didn't like any of the songs where they sang with mock foreign accents notably " When We Were Young ", " London Town " and " Rules Of The Game ". These were the worst songs from their back catalogue. I didn't really say they couldn't sing I was comparing their vocal performances with Agnetha and Frida and we all know who wins " hands down ". Point taken re Cheryl being a better singer now.
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Post by Alan on Apr 8, 2023 10:03:07 GMT
Bucks Fizz are OK but I didn't like any of the songs where they sang with mock foreign accents notably " When We Were Young ", " London Town " and " Rules Of The Game ". These were the worst songs from their back catalogue. It seems they were asked to sing them like that, but no idea why. When We Were Young was a big hit. Jay Aston has said that she was adopting an affected voice, similar to Hazel O’Connor, although a review at the time remarked on her simulating Lene Lovich. Aston has since stated, despite the song's success, her vocal affectation wasn't a good idea, Bobby G said he was unhappy with the way his vocals on London Town were mixed, giving them a distorted quality, claiming that he "sounded like a munchkin". Cheryl Baker said of The Rules of the Game that she was unhappy with the affected way she was asked to sing. I like I Hear Talk (the song) a lot. Also Golden Days and Heart of Stone (I think they did a better job of it than Cher. It worked better having more than one vocalist sing the chorus). Agnetha, of course, covered their song “Love In A World Gone Mad”. Although Agnetha is by far the better singer, I prefer the arrangement of the Bucks Fizz version. Bucks Fizz’s worst singles in my opinion are Love The One You’re With (an unnecessary cover version of a song already well-covered) and Magical. A Smash Hits review of the latter had Susan Tully (of EastEnders and Grange Hill) commenting that she hoped it would do well but that it really was an awful record! |
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Post by Ed on Apr 8, 2023 12:01:41 GMT
Alan, thank you for your comments. I agree " I Hear Talk " is one of the best songs Bucks Fizz ever recorded. Should have been a bigger hit. It is one of Cheryl Baker's personal favourites. Likewise " Heart Of Stone " is a great song and as you say much better than Cher's. I think they recorded better songs after that terrible coach accident and the departure of Jay Aston. " You And Your Heart So Blue ", " New Beginning " and the ballad " Keep Each Other Warm " are ones I like too. Harking back to earlier days I have always had a soft spot for " One Of Those Nights ". " My Camera Never Lies " is a punchy number and " Now Those Days Are Gone " very moving and sentimental. Nicely sung too. " Talking In Your Sleep " is another good one. Regarding " Love In A World Gone Mad " I am with you Alan, it isn't one of my favourites from Agnetha's " I Stand Alone ". As you say although she sings it beautifully there is something missing. I will finish here as I am in danger of veering from the topic here.
Happy birthday " Waterloo ". I can still remember ABBA's triumphant victory all those years ago. A wonderful achievement.
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Post by Alan on Apr 15, 2023 22:30:09 GMT
I decided to split the Bucks Fizz discussion from the Waterloo Eurovision 49th anniversary thread.
This topic has actually made me get into Bucks Fizz again. Like Dollar, they had a good team behind them and it’s hard to deny the quality of the songs and productions.
They were, of course, the UK’s second attempt (after Brotherhood of Man) at copying ABBA’s two-boy, two-girl line-up. And as with their predecessors, it paid off (largely thanks to the skirt-pulling routine that somehow went over my head at the time - I genuinely thought they won because of the song!).
Aside from the equal line-up, winning Eurovision and one member being younger than the other three, similarities with ABBA ended. They were a cut-price ABBA just as the real thing started to fade into the background. I liked them though. I’d probably single out their third album, Hand Cut, as being the best. The two singles from it, If You Can’t Stand The Heat and Run For Your Life, aren’t their best but the album itself had plenty to offer. Later efforts I Hear Talk and Writing On The Wall were more patchier affairs.
A coach crash in late 1984, which seriously injured Mike Nolan, marked the beginning of the end. And then Jay Aston had an affair with the songwriter husband of the group’s manager, signing off her resignation letter from the group as “The Slut”. They then recruited an even younger new member, Shelley Preston, to replace her, but only had one more major hit (New Beginning in 1986) before ending their recording career in 1988 with Heart of Stone, a song made more famous by Cher.
Shelley left, then Cheryl, with Mike creating his own version of the group with Dollar’s David Van Day (a Three of A Kind parody in 1982 memorably had “David” singing the line “I think I’m gonna join Bucks Fizz” to which Tracey Ullman’s Thereza answers, “Well, you know where your suitcase is”).
It all ended up in court, with Bobby G’s official version of the group having the rights to the name (via his wife, a member of this group). Cheryl and Shelley joined Mike’s rival version before Shelley left and Jay Aston joined, meaning the unofficial version had three original members and the official version just one. An enforced name change resulted in Cheryl, Mike and Jay (and briefly another Bobby, McVey, also a Song For Europe winner) adopting the name “The Fizz”.
The 1980s Bucks Fizz is easy to disregard as throwaway pop, and they certainly weren’t the greatest singers, but somehow it worked. I’d recommend their first three albums to anyone, and even the latter two have their moments.
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Post by evilincarnate on Apr 16, 2023 4:20:52 GMT
And then Jay Aston had an affair with the songwriter husband of the group’s manager, signing off her resignation letter from the group as “The Slut”. Funniest line of the week.  |
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Post by foreverfan on Apr 16, 2023 10:29:16 GMT
Great Group, I sometimes think this sort of group is inevitably compared to ABBA, like so many others, Ace Of Base, ( because they were Swedish , dark blond etc, Brotherhood of Man, , ( of course) , numerous others pre Abba !! And since. However they did/ do have their own style.. and yes still performing to this day.
As already mentioned some great tracks just listen to My Camera Never Lies ( Number 1 hit ) for example, brilliant track. It’s a shame they waned......
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 16, 2023 17:02:01 GMT
I'm very partial to Bucks Fizz. Apart from Making Your Mind Up and Magical, I've found something to like about all their other singles. For me, Are You Ready is their best album. I think any one of the ten tracks could have been convincing singles. The artwork is dreadful, though. I know that Hand Cut is a bit of a fan favourite but, for me, it is a middling set. Two great singles and a hit-in-waiting in I'd Like To Say I Love You. But there was more filler than they could afford at that point. I think even the management and label sensed that - hence the toughening of the sound with When We Were Young. They were smart enough to issue a white label to DJs credited to "the b.f. band." It was picked up in clubs straight away and on some radio stations. But as soon as it became clear whose record it really was, play slowed. Apart from when they released the Are You Ready album (critical highpoint), derision for Bucks Fizz has always been a requirement for the style police. The Jay Aston drama occurred just after When We Were Young was a hit. Not so much an affair as a brief encounter, the reaction was seismic. Andy Hill was married to Nicola Martin who was the manager, so when the dalliance was discovered, all hell broke loose. Jay sent flowers to Nicola with a note of apology, which she signed as "the slut." For all its soap-operatic campness, it was also a suicide note. Obviously, she survived. I often wonder whether anyone was looking out for the welfare of the group's 22-year-old outsider? A kid, basically. Everyone else involved was about a decade older. For all its devotion to youth and beauty, it's not an industry oriented to the care of young people. Amazingly, none of the group knew anything about her dalliance with Andy Hill until she sold her story to the papers when she quit the group to raise money to pay the legal costs of exiting her contract a few months early. She lost everything - house, car, career. A record company wanted to sign her as a solo act, but were threatened with legal action. I think she ended up in a council flat. All for a bonk with a man whose relationship she shouldn't have had to police. By comparison, he escaped scot free. There's a documentary from around 2009 that's well worth a look if you can find it. It's co-produced by Cheryl Baker - which amazes me, as neither she nor Mike Nolan come out of it looking too great. Bobby and Jay - both vilified - look like models of dignity by comparison. I was asked to write a piece to mark Bucks Fizz's 40th anniversary for a British website. It's no big deal, but here it is if you fancy a look: therecs.co.uk/40-years-of-bucks-fizz/. There's a companion piece listing 10 of their songs. Including Making Your Mind Up was a requirement, but the other songs are all my choices: therecs.co.uk/bucks-fizz-ten-top-tunes/When it comes to spectacular 80s production, I'm a massive fan of Trevor Horn. But I think that Andy Hill deserves credit for his production and songwriting too. It took me a while to spot that he had written Céline Dion's massive hit, Think Twice. |
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Post by richard on Apr 16, 2023 18:09:48 GMT
I'm a casual fan of Bucks Fizz, but really like many of their singles. The vocals were often more evenly shared between all four of them rather than the prominence of Agnetha and Frida in ABBA, of course. Now Those Days Are Gone I like a lot in terms of vocal layout: all four of Bucks Fizz singing in four-part harmony at intervals throughout, with the strings entering with dramatic effect.
I admire the adventurousness involved in going for that in a pop single - which was successful, a top 10 hit.
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Post by Alan on Apr 16, 2023 19:02:53 GMT
…Are You Ready…. The artwork is dreadful, though. Though for the 10-year-old emerging gayer, I couldn’t take my eyes off what it looked like Bobby G was packing down there. Both the front cover and the inner gatefold. Mike less so. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 16, 2023 19:09:48 GMT
Gurl... (see also the dance routine on their first TOTP)
His shirtless antics in the vid for Talking In Your Sleep rattled all the hangers in my closet.
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 18, 2023 9:37:42 GMT
Yeah, that was a golden period alright. It was OK to enjoy pop again. To be fair to Dollar, even aside from the Trevor Horn gems, they had a scattering of good singles. WWYWIT-Moonlight, Shooting Star, Haven't we Said Goodbye Before, It's Nature's Way and O L'Amour were all great. I found Theresa's helium breathiness manageable in small doses only. For my personal taste, their album tracks were mostly pretty weak - I'd go so far as to say that The Paris Collection is a collection of duds. The non-Horn stuff on The Dollar Album is well produced (brava, Ms. Bazar) but weak. I have a 15-song iTunes Dollar playlist which I enjoy and listen to often enough.
By comparison, Bucks Fizz often had album tracks and even bonus tracks/B-sides that could have worked well as A-sides. As a result of the writing, they also seemed to have a bit more scope for sincerity in their performances. The era's fashion for oblique lyrics stymied both groups in that department - but they were often delivering records as opposed to songs (not sure if I've explained that properly) so it mostly worked, I think. Bucks Fizz had a massive asset in Andy Hill - his production and songwriting were both fantastic. There are some pop gems hidden on those albums. Easy Love, Love Dies Hard, One Way Love, and 20th Century Hero on Are You Ready; I'd Like To Say I Love You and You Love Love on Hand Cut; Indebted To You, Breaking Me Up and Thief In The Night on I Hear Talk; Soul Motion and Love In A World Gone Mad on Writing On The Wall. The 12" of When We Were Young has a brilliant bonus track that could have been edited for a great 7" single: When The Love Has Gone. The 12" of I Hear Talk had a great bonus track too. Invisible was originally slated as the follow-up to When We Were Young. Another Jay lead-vocal, it was shelved when the affair/dalliance was discovered and London Town was issued at short notice instead. When We Were At War was written by the group (produced by Bobby G) and came out as the B-side of Rules Of The Game. It's a really elegant piece of pop and should have been on an album.
And I think the strength of the song writing is shown in who chose to cover their songs: Agnetha, of course (Love In A World Gone Mad); Barry Manilow (Keep Each Other Warm); Cher (Heart Of Stone), The Four Seasons (You And Your Heart So Blue); Céline Dion (A French version of The Land Of Make Believe).
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Post by evilincarnate on Apr 18, 2023 13:42:48 GMT
Time to commit sacrilege... At the risk of causing offence, I've never cared for Bucks Fizz but acknowledge a couple of singles tickled my fancy: "My Camera Never Lies" and "Piece Of The Action". However, for inexplicable and utterly sad reasons, I bought all of their albums but have never listened to them - not one. They are still in their original seals - not because of potential collectibility, but simply because I couldn't be arsed listening to them. Yet I had the strangest compulsion to purchase them. Of course, this says way more about me than the band. PS Alan, I never knew about the inner sleeve of 'Are You Ready' until reading your post today.  |
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Post by richard on Apr 18, 2023 14:46:21 GMT
A general point that occurs to me, but related to Bucks Fizz (and other past pop groups):
It's a blanket statement, I know, but it seems to me that, on the whole, modern pop is less melodic than it was in the 60s, 70s and 80s (and before). Or perhaps it's just that a lot of today's tunes that I've heard, stylistically, seem to have changed in ways I don't particularly like: riff-based and much more repetitive.
I'm aware that, for me, this is very much age-related, and I admit it: when it comes to pop, give me The Beatles, ABBA, Bucks Fizz, and others from those decades I've mentioned.
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Post by richard on Apr 18, 2023 14:51:27 GMT
I can very much relate to that Phil ( evilincarnate ,) - I've bought classical CDs, never listened to and still in their wrappers. What was I thinking?! |
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 18, 2023 17:59:58 GMT
I've lost count of the number of albums I've bought on recommendation, and then not played them a second time (or even all the way through). That's why I stopped paying attention to reviewers.
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Post by foreverfan on Apr 18, 2023 18:27:19 GMT
Other great tracks You And Your Heart So Blue and Keep Each Other Warm..
They deserved bigger hits , 3 Number 1s which is good, but only 7 top ten hits in total and 20 hits in the top 75 ...
Shame...
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Post by gary on Apr 25, 2023 21:57:17 GMT
Hometime, I’d like to see that documentary you mention (the one produced by Cheryl Baker). I looked on YouTube, and although I found a couple of Bucks Fizz documentaries, plus some Cheryl Baker interviews, I couldn’t find one that sounded like the one you mention. Do you have a link?
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 26, 2023 7:17:17 GMT
Hi Gary. Here's the official trailer for it:
I got it on DVD when it was released but I notice there's a link under this video for streaming. I know the trailer makes it look like an undue amount of time is spent on the Eurovision, but it's a proper scan of their heyday and includes the latter-day hair-pulling. It's great.
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Post by gary on Apr 26, 2023 9:08:58 GMT
Thanks. That looks like a lot of fun. Hard to believe Cheryl was a ‘cow’. She always seems so nice!
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