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Post by Alan on Jun 16, 2023 18:37:33 GMT
Maybe a bonus track on a 90s The Visitors revamp. Did Benny and Bjorn go off it? It was on the deluxe of The Visitors in 2012 but that’s its only other issue (outside of expensive boxed sets such as 2005’s The Complete Studio Recordings). But by putting it on a mainstream compilation - and one with “Gold” in the title at that - the cat was well and truly out of the bag. Of the three complete 1990s issued songs, Put On Your White Sombrero seems to have the most affection from Björn and Benny, even making it to vinyl on a 10-track compilation of the five non-album A-sides and selected five b-sides/rare tracks. I Am The City, thanks to More Gold, also has a wide issue. Dream World is the least popular, with just boxed set issues and a single other appearance as a bonus track on the deluxe Voulez-Vous (2010). Its partial re-use in Does Your Mother Know might be the reason for this. The other two songs weren’t re-used (as far as I’m aware?) Åh, Vilka Tider (not first issued in the 1990s) is even more rare, not even appearing on the deluxe of Ring Ring (2013). A proper ABBA recording as it contains vocals by all four of them (something that Santa Rosa or She’s My Kind Of Girl do not have, despite being released under the B, B, A & F name). |
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Post by evilincarnate on Jun 17, 2023 7:51:38 GMT
Absolutely not. By the time of You Owe Me One they really should have been capable of better. Both I Saw It In The Mirror and Two For The Price of One have their merits and, please excuse my arrogance, I feel really sorry for those that don’t see it like I do. With I Saw It In The Mirror you have Agnetha and Frida coming in to steal the show, and they were at their most powerful when they did this. And it’s exactly the same with Two For The Price Of One. Those vocals in the chorus really do it for me, more so than when A and F are centre stage. Plus it fits the dark theme of The Visitors. I seriously would not have liked this album as much without it. The worst ABBA songs in my opinion are Åh, Vilka Tider (that everyone seems to conveniently forget about because there’s no English version) and You Owe Me One. I admire your committed position on this matter Alan.  At the risk of incurring major wrath, I must admit I kinda like "You Owe Me One", but then I'm partial to all of the tracks recorded during the 1982 sessions, including "Just Like That". I realise that "You Owe Me One" is no masterpiece and I agree with others that it is "gimmicky", rushed-sounding and ultimately more akin to an unfinished demo, but I love the vocals, particularly the layering of the backing harmonies, which are top-notch in my opinion. I do dislike the intro, which I always find jarring, and the lyrics leave a lot to be desired, but it chugs along rather nicely for me. Is it b-side material? Most probably, but that's not necessarily a negative - it can sometimes be that a song just doesn't have a suitable home elsewhere (not the garbage bin Alan!).  BennyBjorn, I'm curious about whether "You Owe Me One" has a definite lead vocal or not. It's seemingly dominated by Frida but I believe there is a harmony vocal throughout, which could be either Agnetha or Frida. Frida could simply be mixed higher and/or possibly be mimicking Agnetha? Agnetha is definitely prominent during certain sections such as the "I miss all the fun" backing vocal but she, like Frida, is most probably alternating her voice during the entire song. Alan, I concur that "Ah, Vilka Tider" is treacherous. Appallingly bad but understandable given that it was recorded during the early phase of their career. I'm not a fan of "I Saw It In The Mirror" at all and always considered it bottom-of-the-barrel stuff. I've never cared for "Two For The Price Of One" but concede there is a decent tune and the girls' vocals during the chorus are fantastic. However, the lyrics and Bjorn's lead vocal kill it for me. I actually prefer "Crazy World" (honestly). I long ago removed "Two For The Price Of One" from 'The Visitors' on my iTunes playing list, replacing it with the infinitely superior "Should I Laugh Or Cry". That makes for a splendid album in my opinion - dark throughout, just the way I like it. I remain fascinated by the 1982 recordings and wish (in vain) for more to be uncovered. I am utterly convinced that nothing else exists from this period (other than perhaps alternate versions of the six songs) and believe there were no genuine plans to reconvene the following year, but I have long fantasised about a full album. What I think can't be denied is that both Frida and Agnetha sounded superb during this period - confident, adventurous and in complete unison. I think they were truly hitting their stride and perhaps would have contributed more ideas to the recordings if the band had continued at that stage. Of course, it was not to be. Justabba, thanks for the Catherine Tate tidbit [see abbachat.boards.net/thread/1623/more-songs-voyage-sessions-2024]. If true, it's quite exciting but I am still holding out hope for an album. I would like for all four members to properly discuss what their future is as a band, with the realisation that they don't have another ten or fifteen years to consider another reunion - it's basically now or never, even if a projected release date was a few years into the future. Time is ticking - their health, musical and vocal abilities may well decline at a rapid pace going forward, particularly given their respective ages. |
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Post by evilincarnate on Jun 17, 2023 8:47:50 GMT
NO NO NO I love Under Attack I love what they did with the singing. Crazy World is hard to hear its like waiting for paint to dry to hear the tagg of the song. CW is the only song that I don't play and its a song I don't miss. Add me to the "Under Attack" appreciation choir - I think it's superb. Amazing vocals and a nice attempt from the boys to get jiggy with the early 1980's without embarrassing themselves. That said, it's the girls who transform it from potentially insipid to inspired. I really don't mind "Crazy World" but I agree it takes its sweet time to reach a conclusion. It's a reasonable tune and Frida's backing vocal during the bridge section (at about the 2:10 mark, preceding the third verse) is splendid. With a little more thought, particularly in the lyric department (the misguided slut-shaming narrative is humorous but ill-advised in retrospect), and perhaps an Agnetha/Frida lead vocal, it could have been an excellent track (for the time period involved). |
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Post by matt on Jun 17, 2023 10:01:10 GMT
In the latest ABBA fan club magazine, Carl Magnus Palm has written a mini-feature on I Am The City.
He's releasing a new book later this year as a companion to The Complete Recording Sessions and he got to listen to the tape archive of Michael Tretow which included hours of unreleased alternate versions and recordings. He gave a little snippet:
"I can reveal that the chorus of I Am The City dates back to at least 1981, when it was part of a song that was destined to remain unfinished."
There's also a quote from Benny from 1993 when it was first released:
"although it was made over a decade ago, it actually sounds pretty good. It may not be the world's best song, but it sounds like pop- it has the aura of ABBA."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2023 10:28:29 GMT
I wonder how many songs destined to remain unfinished 🤔
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Post by richard on Jun 17, 2023 11:00:42 GMT
NO NO NO I love Under Attack I love what they did with the singing. Crazy World is hard to hear its like waiting for paint to dry to hear the tagg of the song. CW is the only song that I don't play and its a song I don't miss. Add me to the "Under Attack" appreciation choir - I think it's superb. Amazing vocals and a nice attempt from the boys to get jiggy with the early 1980's without embarrassing themselves. That said, it's the girls who transform it from potentially insipid to inspired. [...] I agree with you, Phil, about the 82 tracks, generally, and with you and Welshboy and others who like Under Attack. And I wonder if the 82 songs are not given much appreciation by many because of what I regard as an inaccurate notion that ABBA had 'lost it' in terms of songwriting and recording commitment at that time. I don't agree with that - apart from YOMO, which I do find a bit of a glib throwaway. But I'd opt for it every time over the simpering and, for me, cringeworthy I Am Just A Girl. And I certainly don't find the 82 songs inferior to most of the songs on Voyage. Regarding Under Attack, I've always liked it, and nowadays I like it even more. I remember a comment from Tony on the old A4E forum that he felt the chorus was 'undercooked', and I agree with that. And the great harmonies from Frida - that were apparently leaked a few years ago in relation to the Mamma Mia! show ( forget the specific context now) - that were inexplicably underused, or not used at all, would have added to it wonderfully, I think. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Jun 17, 2023 12:24:02 GMT
When I first bought "The Singles," the unknown Under Attack was the first track I played. After the "failure" of TDBYC in the charts, I heaved a sigh of relief that a more obvious single was in the offing. It was catchy and I felt naively sure it would help restore the group's chart fortunes. I played it a lot, as I tended to do with all new material. I can't say I absolutely loved it, but I did enjoy it. I gradually figured out what it was that didn't really gel with me. I think the production of Under Attack is curiously light. After years of densely-packed pristine production, ABBA were suddenly paring things back. Ironically, maximalism had come right into fashion. Led by master producers Trevor Horn (ABC, Dollar, Spandau, etc), Andy Hill (Bucks Fizz), Alex Sadkin (Duran), high-gloss kitchen-sink-included pop was massive. Had Under Attack been recorded in 1979 or '90, I reckon it would have been a lush, slightly more bombastic production. Maybe with some of the heft of Me And I, Elaine, or even LAYLOM. For me, the chorus of Under Attack is undercooked (thanks for the reminder richard). As we eventually found out, Frida's layers were criminally underused. The second verse should (IMO) have been stronger than the first - adding a snare, maybe, and definitely some rhythmic percussion (shakers, tambourine, hi-hat, etc.) to make it feel like the song had taken off. The synth solo sounds like the theme to a cheaply produced cop show. The treatment of the vocals makes Agnetha sound very nasal, and the vocoder on Bjorn's bits was a little old hat by then. The lyrics haven't aged well at all. Back then, they were probably seen as kind of romantic. Ooh, isn't he a persistent dreamboat? In more enlightened times, he comes across as some creepy, entitled bro who doesn't realise that "no" is a complete sentence. Hashtag Consent, innit. Let's hope Agnetha had some mace in her handbag. I'm not sure if Bjorn realises that the song might not have aged well enough to fit in the Voyage show. You Owe Me One is throwaway and fun. It doesn't have any pretensions to depth and, for that reason, I don't have any problem with it. It's B-side material on a par with Happy Hawaii. The lyrics are probably better than the tune deserves (the a-ha/uh-hum bits notwithstanding) and the vocal arrangement is fun. The drum track is light but fresh-sounding for the time. The synth figure from the old version of DYMK sounds slightly like Blancmange. Like Phil, I'd take it over the truly awful I Am Just A Girl any day of the week. At the time, I really liked Cassandra. It's melodic and beautifully sung. But too old-school ABBA, really, for the time. It got some airplay here in Ireland and I later found out that it was a single in Canada. It hasn't stayed with me: the choruses are a bit swing-your-pants flamenco and, IMO, ABBA ticked that box sufficiently with Chiquitita. It didn't need repeating. Just Like That has a superb chorus and it feels like a close sibling of DSMD. The rewritten verses/lyrics were far stronger and I'd love an ABBA recording of the Gemini version - but with the original ABBA chorus and the tempo of the sax version. Does that make sense? The lyrical theme was much better utilised on the beautiful TDBYC. I Am The City is busy and a bit tinny, but it has a bit of vim. It sounds a little like a Bucks Fizz album track (I rate BF, so it's not an insult). They should have considered the tempo before recording the vocals: if the girls had sung the song naturally in that key and at that speed, they would have sounded great - unlike the chipmunks in the released version. |
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Post by Alan on Jun 17, 2023 13:09:48 GMT
The first line in Hometime’s post reminds me that Under Attack became the first completely new ABBA song that I got before my brother! He wasn’t interested in getting The Singles so I got it instead (for my birthday which was/is conveniently in November). He later got the single, mainly because of the exclusive b-side. I don’t think I played Under Attack first, but I can’t remember for definite. I think I played all four sides in order so had to wait to the end to hear it!
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Post by evilincarnate on Jun 17, 2023 14:08:55 GMT
The first line in Hometime’s post reminds me that Under Attack became the first completely new ABBA song that I got before my brother! He wasn’t interested in getting The Singles so I got it instead (for my birthday which was/is conveniently in November). He later got the single, mainly because of the exclusive b-side. I don’t think I played Under Attack first, but I can’t remember for definite. I think I played all four sides in order so had to wait to the end to hear it! What a nice surprise lay in store once you played the b-side of your brother's single purchase! |
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Post by evilincarnate on Jun 17, 2023 14:35:58 GMT
When I first bought "The Singles," the unknown Under Attack was the first track I played. After the "failure" of TDBYC in the charts, I heaved a sigh of relief that a more obvious single was in the offing. It was catchy and I felt naively sure it would help restore the group's chart fortunes. I played it a lot, as I tended to do with all new material. I can't say I absolutely loved it, but I did enjoy it. I gradually figured out what it was that didn't really gel with me. I think the production of Under Attack is curiously light. After years of densely-packed pristine production, ABBA were suddenly paring things back. Ironically, maximalism had come right into fashion. Led by master producers Trevor Horn (ABC, Dollar, Spandau, etc), Andy Hill (Bucks Fizz), Alex Sadkin (Duran), high-gloss kitchen-sink-included pop was massive. Had Under Attack been recorded in 1979 or '90, I reckon it would have been a lush, slightly more bombastic production. Maybe with some of the heft of Me And I, Elaine, or even LAYLOM. For me, the chorus of Under Attack is undercooked (thanks for the reminder richard ). As we eventually found out, Frida's layers were criminally underused. The second verse should (IMO) have been stronger than the first - adding a snare, maybe, and definitely some rhythmic percussion (shakers, tambourine, hi-hat, etc.) to make it feel like the song had taken off. The synth solo sounds like the theme to a cheaply produced cop show. The treatment of the vocals makes Agnetha sound very nasal, and the vocoder on Bjorn's bits was a little old hat by then. The lyrics haven't aged well at all. Back then, they were probably seen as kind of romantic. Ooh, isn't he a persistent dreamboat? In more enlightened times, he comes across as some creepy, entitled bro who doesn't realise that "no" is a complete sentence. Hashtag Consent, innit. Let's hope Agnetha had some mace in her handbag. I'm not sure if Bjorn realises that the song might not have aged well enough to fit in the Voyage show. You Owe Me One is throwaway and fun. It doesn't have any pretensions to depth and, for that reason, I don't have any problem with it. It's B-side material on a par with Happy Hawaii. The lyrics are probably better than the tune deserves (the a-ha/uh-hum bits notwithstanding) and the vocal arrangement is fun. The drum track is light but fresh-sounding for the time. The synth figure from the old version of DYMK sounds slightly like Blancmange. Like Phil, I'd take it over the truly awful I Am Just A Girl any day of the week. At the time, I really liked Cassandra. It's melodic and beautifully sung. But too old-school ABBA, really, for the time. It got some airplay here in Ireland and I later found out that it was a single in Canada. It hasn't stayed with me: the choruses are a bit swing-your-pants flamenco and, IMO, ABBA ticked that box sufficiently with Chiquitita. It didn't need repeating. Just Like That has a superb chorus and it feels like a close sibling of DSMD. The rewritten verses/lyrics were far stronger and I'd love an ABBA recording of the Gemini version - but with the original ABBA chorus and the tempo of the sax version. Does that make sense? The lyrical theme was much better utilised on the beautiful TDBYC. I Am The City is busy and a bit tinny, but it has a bit of vim. It sounds a little like a Bucks Fizz album track (I rate BF, so it's not an insult). They should have considered the tempo before recording the vocals: if the girls had sung the song naturally in that key and at that speed, they would have sounded great - unlike the chipmunks in the released version. Tony, I think I just laughed out loud four times whilst reading your post - fantastic!! I agree with everything you've stated, although I remain particularly fond of "Cassandra" - Frida delivers such a stunning lead vocal and Agnetha (as always) provides perfect accompaniment. (Strangely enough, I was never entirely convinced that the verses blended sufficiently with the choruses - the very problem Benny had cited with "Just Like That".) I would love to hear a re-imagined version of "Under Attack" with Frida's unused chorus vocal stylings reinstated - these highlight her intelligent, intuitive approach - she is so underrated as a singer. I always thought the synth solo was cheap sounding and thin but chose to see past it - a selective interpretation I guess? Agnetha does sound nasal and the vocoder flourishes even embarrassed me as a child, but somehow it all still hangs together for me - I just love it. I'll have to listen to the Gemini version of "Just Like That" again - I only recall thinking the tempo was way too fast and recoiling from the shrill vocals upon first hearing it. I may have been too hasty in my dismissiveness - and resentful that the ABBA version hadn't been released instead. You're right - the original ABBA chorus is quite reminiscent of "Don't Shut Me Down" - impressive stuff! "I Am The City" is tinny and definitely something Bucks Fizz could have recorded. I still enjoy it though, and once again, think the girls' performances are underappreciated, most probably due to the sped-up production. |
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Post by Alan on Jun 17, 2023 19:22:32 GMT
It did do a bit better than The Day Before You Came though. With Head Over Heels stalling at 25 and The Day Before You Came at 32, a number 26 placing for Under Attack was an improvement and had seemingly stopped the rot. The fact that the album was already out (whereas TDBYC had been a brand new single) suggested things might be looking up.
What sticks in my head to this day is the report on The Money Programme from September 1983 where Björn and Stig were interviewed regarding ABBA’s/Polar’s financial problems. Part of the Under Attack video was shown and the narrator said the song was almost like a plea for sympathy (the later court case against Stig ultimately stemmed from these financial difficulties). Somehow that report has tainted the song for me ever since.
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Post by Alan on Jun 17, 2023 20:03:17 GMT
It’s interesting that you see it like that. To me, it was clear they were on a downward spiral so, on that basis, I would have expected Under Attack to barely scrape the top 40. With reduced expectations, 26 seemed quite respectable. As much as I’m not that keen on the song, I wouldn’t hold it responsible for the chart position. The problem was the ABBA brand itself being seen as a 1970s relic, and I’m not sure anything they’d have done by this point could have bettered Under Attack’s chart position.
I was actually quite surprised when The Singles reached number one (which I think I only became aware of when it was mentioned on The Late, Late Breakfast Show).
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Post by Alan on Jun 17, 2023 20:53:33 GMT
The John Lennon Collection took over from The Singles at number one. It was the Lennon album’s third week on the chart and, after languishing in the lower half of the top 20 for two weeks, began its run of six straight weeks at number one.
My memory is playing tricks on me…. I thought The Singles was at number 2 for weeks before finally reaching the top, but no; after entering the chart at number 6, it rose to number one in its second week before falling to number 2 for two weeks, a week at number 3 and then three further weeks at number 2. This would suggest that, had the John Lennon album not happened, ABBA would have spent a total of six (non-consecutive) weeks at number one.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2023 21:05:21 GMT
TDBYC was a Top 5 hit in 6 small European countries - Norway, Sweden, Finland, Netherlands, Belgium and Switzerland and Top 5 in the big German market.
But only getting to #32 in the UK must have hurt. Bjorn is reported to have said if it got to #1 in the UK they might have continued. Not sure if that's a myth or not.
Their hearts weren't in it by 1982.
Under Attack was only Top 5 in Netherlands and Belgium. It wasn't even relessed in many, perhaps most countries. In Germany it only got to #22.
Their 1982 singles just weren't up to their usual high standard. I know many fans think TDBYC is a masterpiece but it simply wasn't commercial.
It would have been like releasing I Wonder in 1978 or Andante Andsnte in 1980.
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Post by Alan on Jun 17, 2023 21:14:28 GMT
It’s a myth in terms of what some might think it means. ABBA were undoubtedly going to be taking a long break. Björn and Benny had met up with Tim Rice on ABBA’s November 1982 London promotional visit, and Agnetha was booked to make a solo album (and Frida a second at some point). Carrying on would only have meant getting back together after all that was done, several years later.
It was also partly a contractual obligation. ABBA had signed new contracts with Polar (well, Stig) in 1981 that were dependent on future record sales (with the implication that this meant future recordings). They effectively broke the terms of this contract, using the excuse that ABBA were no longer a major commercial success in terms of singles (and that this would have undoubtedly affected album sales).
And of course, Frida showed this contract to Phil Collins whose reaction told her what she needed to know… that they were being ripped off.
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Post by BAAB on Jun 18, 2023 7:11:27 GMT
On their Primetime German TV appearance in 1982 they featured TDBYC, Cassandra and UA. Unusual to perform a b-side. Was this to help the very uncommercial The Day Before You Came - if show was before/during the chart run? The Show was aired on 09 September 1982. It should be noted that ABBA had a special status at the German TV Stations at the time, they were the only artists to perform 3 Songs in a Show. Later, only Michael Jackson had the Same status. In 1980, when ABBA didn't travel because of those alleged Kidnapping threads, German TV made a first live transmission for a single Artist from Stockholm, where they performed The Winner Takes It All, Super Trouper and On And On And On, which later became a B-side to LAYLOM. So I suppose, they chose Cassandra because it was the best from the remaining new two songs they had. I personaly like Cassandra. It ist the better version of Put On Your White Sombrero. Maybe we Germans like it more kichty. Remember that while British listeners ignored Honey Honey, the Germans made it a Smash Hit 😁 TDBYC was a top 5 Song in Germany, as it was in 8 other Europeans countries and Canada as well. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Jun 18, 2023 9:53:04 GMT
Excellent points, BAAB. And Cassandra really is the better version of POYWS. I think that Germany and America show that the UK made a mistake by not releasing Honey Honey. The public liked the song enough to make it a Top 10 hit by Sweet Dreams. (They were an otherwise unknown one-hit-wonder, yes?)
The choice of B-sides was sometimes odd too: On And On And On was a single in the US and Australia; The Visitors was a single in the US; and Cassandra was a single in Canada. I might not have quite the same amount of faith in Cassandra, but I think the others really should have been global singles.
Amazing that ABBA was so huge that major TV shows made such remarkable concessions.
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Post by HOMETIME on Jun 18, 2023 10:05:40 GMT
It’s a myth in terms of what some might think it means. ABBA were undoubtedly going to be taking a long break. Björn and Benny had met up with Tim Rice on ABBA’s November 1982 London promotional visit, and Agnetha was booked to make a solo album (and Frida a second at some point). Carrying on would only have meant getting back together after all that was done, several years later. It was also partly a contractual obligation. ABBA had signed new contracts with Polar (well, Stig) in 1981 that were dependent on future record sales (with the implication that this meant future recordings). They effectively broke the terms of this contract, using the excuse that ABBA were no longer a major commercial success in terms of singles (and that this would have undoubtedly affected album sales). And of course, Frida showed this contract to Phil Collins whose reaction told her what she needed to know… that they were being ripped off. These are all points that I wish could be explored in a documentary. It doesn't have to be approached in a sensationalist way. |
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Post by richard on Jun 18, 2023 11:04:22 GMT
Is there an element of confirmation bias in thinking the '82 songs are significantly less good than what went before: because a few weren't big hits, they were of poorer quality? And, on the other hand, I'm sure most of us have thought that this or that track - from any artist - "ought to have been" much more successful than it was. When a group starts declining in popularity, it's highly unlikely to have big hits anymore. That's obvious enough. So imagine DQ or KMKY had come out in '82. Would either have fared any better, chartwise, than TDBYC ? Yes, no doubt many rate the latter highly; but lots of others don't, probably. And I wonder if DQ and KMKY would be generally regarded the same way had they been '82 tracks. In other words, timing is everything in pop - and I'm sure perceptions of music, too, sometimes relate to such timing. Not me, of course, just others!  |
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Post by Alan on Jun 18, 2023 11:50:59 GMT
There is that… it was was very unusual for ABBA to release two non-album b-sides on consecutive singles. Of ABBA’s five non-album A-sides, two of the others had used tracks from their then most recent studio albums as b-sides and the other a three-year old medley of folk songs.
I wouldn’t say popularity has anything to do with likes or dislikes of songs. I’m no fan of Super Trouper but it was number one for three weeks. Under Attack is to me very harsh sounding, and not my preferred kind of ABBA. And I don’t like processed vocals (aside from Cher’s Believe that started the trend, I can’t stand Auto-Tune. I heard Kylie’s Padam thing for the first time this morning and wasn’t at all impressed).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2023 19:56:38 GMT
Very much agree with Alan on his post above.
I don't think people dislike the 1982 songs because of their disappointing chart positions. I understand though the point Richard makes by 1982 ABBA's popularity had declined. And probably 3 brilliant songs would not have been #1 or Top 5. But probably charted better than 25, 32, 26 (in UK).
Hometime - I didn't know Cassandra was released in Canada. In addition to TDBYC, instead of UA? Certainly agree with The Visitors getting a more widespread single release. I think their American record company, for once, got it right choosing that and WAISAD as singles.
BAAB - I forgot Denmark in my list of European countries TDBYC was Top 5. I make it 8 (including Germany). Am I missing one?
Top 5 in Canadian Adult Contemporary Chart doesn't count as a Top 5 Canadian hit.
The Day Before You Came is only popular with hardcore ABBA fans. It is not so with more casual fans. It hasn't got more popular as the decades past. It doesn't do well on Streaming. Yes, you can argue not so well known...but maybe also just not liked so much.
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Post by Alan on Jun 18, 2023 21:27:13 GMT
Was there a Channel 5 programme of the greatest ABBA songs of all time where The Day Before You Came was placed number 2 or something? Certainly quite high. The problem with things like that is that they can’t be taken too seriously. There would have undoubtedly been fan campaigns to vote for it multiple times or whatever.
If it doesn’t do that well on streaming, despite being on More Gold, it would suggest it isn’t as popular as it might seem.
I used to like TDBYC when I assumed the “you” was still around and she was merely remembering a typical day before she met them. I then learnt that actually no, the “you” has left her and she’s gone back to this existence. And there’s an even darker interpretation, that the “you” is her death, and it’s her ghost (or whatever) talking about her last day on earth. Nice.
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Post by BAAB on Jun 18, 2023 22:29:28 GMT
There ist something funny about this thread.
Jonny doesn't seem to like at least 40% of the Voyage album and somehow puts this into relation with ABBA's 1982 period.
I don't get the point here obviously.
As it seems to me, the background of 1982 is a completely different one than 2018 to 2021.
In 1982 all Four thought in different directions and had lost interest in the ABBA project.
That Benny and Björn still could write Chart topping Pop Hits was demonstrated by One Night In Bangkok and that they still could write good Pop Ballads was demonstrated by I Know Him So Well. 2 more Classics of the 1980ies.
In 2018 it was the other way round. Frida and Agnetha had surprised Benny and Björn at this 50th Anniversary Party at Berns with their The Way Old Friends Do and this might have ignited a spark which turned into a Firework of activities of all four later on.
There was no financial or artistic need to do any of the following activities - but they did it - and I believe they did it because they wanted it and NOT because any Management told them they " need to have an Album instead of an EP". Also, for the Voyage Show, a release of an Album was not a necessity.
I really do not understand why some people don't seem to believe that all Four did the Album just because they wanted it.
What may be the real parallel is is the way Benny and Björn produced the songs. By 1982 it seems that Benny did most of the song writing and production, while in 2018 and 2021 he did all writing and production with Björn being "only" lyricist.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 9:03:12 GMT
Alan - there were a couple of TV programmes on on Channel 4 the other on Channel 5 both had The Day Before You Came at #3.
TDBYC is no. 30 something in streaming of ABBA songs.
BAAB - I have said the circumstances between 1982 and 2017-21 were of course different. I just think what unites both periods is the downturn in quality. I like songs from both eras but also some I think a bit average and some I dislike. I feel ABBA were struggling to fill an album with Voyage and that's perhaps why it took them so long and had to resurect Just a Notion and have those nods and winks to past ABBA glories.
I also think some similarities with Super Trouper in terms of musical diversity. Voyage probably has lesst in common with The Visitors - although OTF and ISHFIY are quite The Visitor-ish.
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Post by richard on Jun 19, 2023 9:23:22 GMT
I used to like TDBYC when I assumed the “you” was still around and she was merely remembering a typical day before she met them. I then learnt that actually no, the “you” has left her and she’s gone back to this existence. And there’s an even darker interpretation, that the “you” is her death, and it’s her ghost (or whatever) talking about her last day on earth. Nice. That's a grimly fascinating interpretation of TDBC's lyrics, Alan, I hadn't heard or considered before. I've had an ambivalent attitude to the song for a long time. I like it musically: the sparse, melancholic atmosphere. But my interpretation of the lyrics - later confirmed by Björn, I understand - has an ambiguity which I find irritating more than clever or moving. If someone has come into her life and transformed it for the better, why dwell on the details of dreary yesterday? And if that someone has already gone, and she's back where was, the title and import of the lyrics are misleading - even redundant - in my opinion. But when I hear the argument that TDBYC was not commercial enough to be a single, I think of Bohemian Rhapsody. It's that timing thing again - whether a group is hot or not - as to what might get 'accepted'. |
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Post by evilincarnate on Jun 19, 2023 9:53:46 GMT
Was there a Channel 5 programme of the greatest ABBA songs of all time where The Day Before You Came was placed number 2 or something? Certainly quite high. The problem with things like that is that they can’t be taken too seriously. There would have undoubtedly been fan campaigns to vote for it multiple times or whatever. If it doesn’t do that well on streaming, despite being on More Gold, it would suggest it isn’t as popular as it might seem. I used to like TDBYC when I assumed the “you” was still around and she was merely remembering a typical day before she met them. I then learnt that actually no, the “you” has left her and she’s gone back to this existence. And there’s an even darker interpretation, that the “you” is her death, and it’s her ghost (or whatever) talking about her last day on earth. Nice. ...but I adore the dark angle, it's what cuts to the core of the song's brilliance. That said, one of my favourite pastimes is weeping in dark, damp corners. Different strokes 'n' all... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 11:15:08 GMT
My interpretation of TDBYC was that pre-"you" the lady lived a dull life. She was waiting for someone to make her happy, give her life meaning.
Then she met "You". They became lovers but it didn't last.
"You" left. She is now reflecting on her life before and with "You" She knows she had a shell of a life before "You" but hasn't quite moved on.
She fails to see any joy in "Me"
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Post by jj on Jun 19, 2023 18:31:20 GMT
Jun 12, 2023 16:05:18 GMT 8 HOMETIME , said:
"It feels like the 1982 fade-out might be the topic we return to most often in discussions here. It really is a fascinating period..."
I agree, it's a complex and intriguing period, with so many elements at play. I believe it would lend itself well to being presented in a crime/mystery/investigation format, where a serious narrator would recount all the different facets (the divorces, interpersonal frictions, lack of motivation, age, looks, image, the changing times/styles/tastes in music, Stig's business decisions/members' contracts, solo projects, etc.) that combined to bring the whole edifice crashing down. The "case" (i.e., "Things that Led to ABBA Coming Undone in 1982") could wrap up with the narrator drawing some main conclusions without providing one, definitive answer.
I can see ABBA's 1982 "done" as a documentary, with a serious narrator guiding us right the way through (with no audible voices for any of the members or main personalities involved, just the narrator describing all the likely conversations and discussions that seemed to have happened between the main players at the time, eg., "On the fourth of April, Frida arrived in Stockholm from Paris for a short meeting she'd requested a month before. The get-together was convened at her request in the Polar offices, but only Bjorn and Agnetha managed to attend alongside Stig. It's likely Frida at this point wanted to announce to the others that..."), perhaps using real pictures sometimes (if the producer/s managed to get permission), credible-looking stand-ins for real locations, and using human stand-ins for the ABBA members, for musicians and staff, to help recreate some situations, but all of these stand-ins would be filmed only from behind, or with faces blurred or in silhouette, in tasteful, innovative ways, using of course the clothes of that period, or costumes copied directly from those they wore in their 1982 promotional shoots and appearances. If you've seen some of the better film-documentary "recreations" (of real places and real people where they don't actually show these actors'/stand-ins' faces or voices), you'll get a good idea of the sorts of techniques I'm talking about that would be perfect for this kind of story.
Or even better, have someone with the talent of Todd Haynes direct it, using dolls. If you've seen Haynes' innovative and amazingly moving "Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story", you'll realize just how much can be accomplished with very little if you combine an excellent script/story with an intelligent director and editor.
[BTW: "Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story" is a MUST SEE.]
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Post by BAAB on Jun 19, 2023 20:57:38 GMT
Actually for me the discussion why a song becomes a hit boils down to the statement of many hit writers that you simply cannot "plan" to have a hit or not.
And on the other hand, a chart hit alone doesn't define quality.
Many other factors count in as well. SUPER TROUPER was ABBAs biggest Album sales wise, wasn't it ? It could have become even bigger - IF this morron wouldn't have shot down John Lennon. An event no one could have foreseen!
For me, the magic of Voyage doesn't lie so much in each song, it lies more in the fact that 4 old friends came together once more to experience their own magic connection again while creating music together.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 21:41:56 GMT
Timing is important of course but so is the song.
Bohemian Rhapsody was released when Queen was on the way up. Although somewhat unorthodox it was catchy and singalong.
Neither of these were the case for The Day Before You Came.
BAAB,Super Trouper was ABBA's 2nd biggest selling album in the UK and Germany I think, after Arrival
The murder of John Lennon in 1980 had no impact on sales of the Super Trouper album. It didn't depress sales for ABBA.This is a silly argument you make. Super Trouper remained #1 and Lennon's album had to wait quite a few weeks to get to #1.
True, Super Trouper single left #1 the week after Lennon murdered and Lennon got to #1 with Just Like Starting Over. But Super Trouper fell to #4 so wouldn't have remained #1 anyway. In the UK, of course.
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