Voyage album - “1982 part 2” or “Reset to 1980/81”?

Yes, I think timing is everything. It seems to be a matter of planetary alignment for some hits. If ABBA had somehow not released Dancing Queen until 1980 (but had still had all that success), I reckon there'd have been some mockery - these 30somethings singing about being a 17-year-old prowling for a "king" on the dancefloor. Mentions of jiving and tambourines might have had a harder time being excused though. I think a fair chunk of Dancing Queen's magic lies in its naive melancholy and I think more sophistication might have been required of ABBA by then. It's such a beautiful monster of melody, energy and production, though, that I can only imagine it'd still have been a big hit.

MMM is an interesting one. For some reason, it seems almost to have been written off as a single that had been buoyed by the success of Dancing Queen and the general surge in love for ABBA at the time. There are videos on YouTube plotting the chart trajectories of ABBA's singles in various territories. MMM seems to have had a much healthier chart career than that dismissive theory would lead you to believe. It didn't just hit No.3 in the UK and plummet: it bounced around the Top 5, hit the No.3 spot a number of times. It was No.1 in Australia, Germany, Belgium, NL, NZ and even the more reserved France, and actually stayed in the upper reaches of those charts for quite a while. The "advisors" in various territories that Polar relied on when choosing singles must have rated it highly too. Especially considering the stunner that is KMKY was still waiting in the wings.

I said timing was important as to a song's success. It may well be the most important factor but let's consider too the quality of the song.

For sure, Bohemian Rhapsody might not nave been #1 for 9 weeks if released later. But would it have fared as abysmally as ABBA's last 3 singles in the UK?

Australia has been mentioned. ABBA were of course huge for 18 months during mid 1975 to early 1977.

After that there was a backlash. Songs that were #1 hits in Europe, Knowing Me, Knowing You, Take a Chance On Me, The Winner Takes it all failed to make Aussie Top 5 or even Top 10 in case of TACOM. Why? Because ABBA were seen as past it Down Under. But they did do quite well, peaking at #9,#12 and #7. The quality of the songs helped prevent a collapse. During this same era Voulez Vous, I Have a Dream, Super Trouper were all massive flops. And let's be honest, those songs not as good as the others I mentioned.

Yeah, timing may well be the most important factor. But a really good song could reduce the collapse.
Or look at it from another angle. An act is at the height of their success has one song under petforms in the chart. Look at SNC. This was not from an album. It did less well than expected. But the next single Chiquita was bigger in the UK and elsewhere. It seems ABBA fans still liked ABBA but not that song.

At peaks, artists can have "flops". During lean times, when they are no longer popular they can have hits.
Just like some acts from the past may on occassion have a mini-revival - if they have a good enough song.

By 1982 ABBA's time was up. But better songs as singles *might* have lessened the catastrophic fall from grace.

Money x3 was a hit in the UK - #3 and certified gold.

Richard - I find it interesting how different ABBA singles fared in different countries.

As mentioned, Super Trouper was a flop in Australia and America but really big in Europe.

I Dox5 only got to #38 and is oftem referred to as a flop - but that was the UK. It was a big hit everywhere else. #1 Australia, Top 10 in most European countties. Top 15 in the US.

The Name of the Game - only ever made #1 in the UK and stayed there for 4 weeks

And ABBA's commercial peaked at various different times. 1975-76 in Australia. 1976-77 the UK. 1977-78 the US. For Japan and Latin America it was 1979.
In Australia in 1976 when ABBA were at their peak the awful Rock Me got to #4. Timing can be lucky for the undeserving too.
In 1982, the German fans were more pragmatic making The Day Before You Came a Top 5 but less impressed with HOH and UA. This is the perfect example of an act in decline helped by an acclaimed song. But I guess this works only if people have open minds and don't reject outright (or follow slavishly). The UK rejected all 3 - especially TDBYC, and Belgium and Netherlands had the 3 singles all big hits.

In these Streaming times (and more globalised), past glories don't matter. Fernando was ABBA's 2nd biggest hit globally, biggest in some countries but relatively less popular on Streaming.
Meanwhile the Voulez Vous songd, GGG LAYLOM and SOS relatively more popular.

Tik Tok has helped Angeleyes and as said MMM. The Mamma Mia films raised the profile of Slipping Through My Fingers and Honey Honey.

There seems to be less difference between countries though as to the most popular songs - Dancing Queen, GGG, Mamma Mia, The Winner Takes it All, Waterloo.

Knowing Me Knowing You is in my Top 3 favourite ABBA songs. I think it's brilliant.

In terms of popularity it was in ABBA's Top 3 in the UK but rather less popular elsewhere.

I would imagine globally inside their Top 10 but outside the ABBA Top 5.

Here is a list of the most popular songs on Spotify. As you can see KMKY is way down at 16th place. On the daily chart it is 17th. I accept there are ABBA fans who don't stream and listen to their CDs but no reason to think KMKY would be listened way more by this method.

So, yes, relatively less popular. Look at the popularity of LAYLOM snd both Angeleyes and MMMM. The latter two clearly helped by Tik Tok.

This is an interesting site as it shows the Streaming Popilarity of ALL ABBA songs.

DQ is a shade under 1 billion and almost 1 in 6 of all ABBA streams


kworb.net/spotify/artist/0LcJLqbBmaGUft1e9Mm8HV_songs.html

KMKY surely is one of ABBAs most iconic songs, but also was one of their most iconic videos. Who didn't fell in love with Frida in her fur coat and with both Ladies stomping away in the snow.
The visual in the Voyage Show ist also very beautiful.

What is trending on TikTok and what is not is hard to predict and sometimes very hard to understand as an ABBA Fan...Like the trending of Angeleyes in this awfull Highspeed Version. It is not that KMKY doesn't stand the test of time, it just wasn't re-invented yet by the TikTok Generation.

Getting back to the quality of the songs, I don't think that the quality lacked for HOH, TDBYC and UA, all three songs had something unexpected, new and partly also inventive in regards to production to offer.
But the Pop listeners or the general ABBA fan at the time simply expected something else? And for the Fans it was maybe not easy to follow Björn and Benny on their theatrical trip. Everything led away from ABBA, not lacking quality but all Four lacking commitment to the project once called ABBA-The greatest POP group. And so many new Artists new better how to spell the word POP.

In trying to understand the decline of ABBA in '82, the simplest and most obvious explanation for me is that the record-buying public had lost interest - no matter what song they released at the time. KMKY has been mentioned recently - and I do regard it as one of ABBA''s greatest achievements - yet I can easily imagine it being a massive flop had it come out in '82. In those circumstances would the song now be regarded as 'too theatrical' I wonder.

So I'm not sure terms such as 'uncommercial' and 'theatrical' help much.

Trying to hear the '82 songs on their own terms - and leaving aside for the moment the 'ABBA had had their time' argument - apart from YOMO (which I do find a glib throwaway), I regard HOH and Cassandra as 'stylistically uncontemporary' - a term I prefer - but I don't think that about TDBYC or UA. I wouldn't describe TDBYC as theatrical - as I've stated elsewhere, for me it's more like a sparse, techno, Scandinavian blues, without actually having the structure of a blues, so maybe from that angle not liked much at the time; and I think that, along with one or two others, UA is under-powered.

The one thing I will say in favour about the 1982 songs is that their lack of an album home didn’t help. Although The Singles was mine, meaning I could play it whenever I wanted (and I did - loads!) there was a sense of it being familiar songs from the 70s and early 80s and then these two new ones right at the end. Plus the two b-sides were tucked away on singles.

I still listen to albums from start to finish, the way that I did on vinyl originally. I see them as art and that’s how they were designed to be heard. However, bonus tracks added to the end don’t really work. I’m kind of done once the album proper finishes, but then there’s more.

I quite like the bonus disc that came with The Albums CD box in 2008, as that had most of the non-album tracks (apart from those released in the 1990s). Tracks are in chronological order, though I’m still not sure what’s the best way of hearing them.

Hence why I’m so glad they did the Voyage album and didn’t have two orphan tracks.

(I know these days you can make up your own albums - and I do - but even that doesn’t seem satisfactory for the non-album tracks).

Stop it now! 😂

It’s just sacrilege!!! You’re not listening to The Visitors, but rather your idea of how you think The Visitors should be! For starters, The Day Before You Came could never have been part of that album!!

Your posts have made me want to start a pointless campaign to abolish downloading and streaming! In fact, bring back vinyl and cassette as the only ways of listening to albums, see how you substitute tracks then!!

I wouldn’t even remove I Have A Dream on Voulez-Vous and replace it with Summer Night City.

Blimey, is nothing sacred, not even the tracklisting and running orders of studio albums that are more than 40 years old? Off with your heads! 😂

I agree that "Knowing Me, Knowing You" was their most sophisticated single at the time of its release, but also believe it remains pretty close to perfect after all these years. (I actually think it's just as catchy/immediate as "Dancing Queen" so find it surprising it wasn't a global number one.)

Other contenders for notably complex/polished singles would be "The Name Of The Game", "Take A Chance On Me", "The Winner Takes It All" and "The Day Before You Came". Oh, and of course, "Rock Me"! 

I'm with Alan on this.

I also prefer to listen to shorter albums of about 40 minutes, especially when it comes to studio albums. Since the CD era some artists have released studio albums with a running time of 60 or 70 plus minutes. Too long for my liking. I sometimes find myself becoming impatient for them to end. I feel most of these albums would work better with a bit of editing. It's better to leave the listener wanting more.

The Deluxe Edition that has the best choice of bonus material for me is "Voules-Vous".

I ‘unfortunately’ have butchered The Visitors too! SILOC is after TFTPOO, I’ve but Elaine after Me and I, and POYWS after The Piper, I open VV with long version of SNC, and make up a mystical Opus 10 album with 82 tracks, With IKTSGO, Man and Slowly beefing it up, with Skallgang ending album as it’s part of ABBA canon now.

Lol!  Yes, I would prefer bonus tracks on a separate disc as well so that the original album remains intact. Look at the excellent reissues of Tina Turner's albums "Break Every Rule" and "Foreign Affair". They're housed in a box. CD1 is the original album, CD2 the disc with bonus tracks (B-sides, remixes and live tracks). Then there are further discs with a complete concert from the era on CD and DVD. The music videos from the albums are also included and on "Break Every Rule" a full TV special from the era on DVD.

The Spanish tracks from "Gracias Por La Musica" scattered over the separate studio albums was an especially misguided decision as far as I'm concerned. The Spanish album was a separate, stand-alone project, so to me these tracks don't have any connection with the original albums. In some cases the backing track was remixed and the vocals recorded years after the original album. They probably were desperate to find any kind of bonus tracks. Then when all the original albums were released as a deluxe, "Gracias Por La Musica" got its own deluxe treatment after all.

Totally agree with Michel - bonus tracks work better on a separate disc. It means that a (hopefully beautifully) remastered album is presented without compromise. Extra tracks provide context for how the final set was developed and agreed upon. B-sides, remixes, outtakes, alternate versions are fantastic treats - especially for diehard fans - and they deserve to be held aside for their own worth.

Johnny has me thinking about how JAN might have sounded/worked had it been completed in ABBA's original heyday. The boogie beat that we now have would have been too retro, too out of kilter with the Voulez-Vous album. Now that they had no trends to consider, I can see how they probably felt freed to present it as they finally did. I'd have loved to have had newly recorded vocals and a natural ending, though. I know we've gone over this ad nauseaum, so I'm not looking to restart a tired discussion.