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Post by iiwftn on Jul 27, 2023 16:37:38 GMT
Simply magnificent.
Love the two promo performances (Japan/Mike Yarwood Xmas Show).
What an amazing song though, everything about it top drawer; amazing tune, powerful vocals, fantastic production (that base guitar!) and brilliantly mimed on tv.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this masterpiece.
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Post by Alan on Jul 28, 2023 8:54:00 GMT
This is one for HOMETIME. I agree, it’s definitely classic ABBA and one of their best ever songs/recordings. I don’t really see it as a single though, but I know others think differently on that. It seemed to fall out of favour quite quickly, and I don’t think that’s anything to do with UNICEF or Chiquitita. I believe there were other factors. However, that’s no disrespect to it whatsoever. It’s certainly a highlight of its parent album.
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Post by HOMETIME on Jul 28, 2023 10:06:22 GMT
Not sure I'm a subject matter expert here, Alan ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) But I love the song and can blather on about it til the cows come home. For me, it has all the hallmarks of a classic ABBA single. It's uptempo and feels like such an energetic and happy song - until the sadness of the lyrics becomes evident. Classic ABBA misdirection; a plot twist in a pop song. The edits for the two TV performances I've seen are not doing the job properly, I think. The instrumental sections before each verse are too long for a single. That's my personal opinion. That's not to say that longer songs didn't regularly work as singles back then. Chiquitita, Voulez-Vous and TDBYC all exceeded a five-minute running time. To my ears, there are obvious edit opportunities in both sections that would allow the vocals to come in sooner. Similarly, the outro could be faded earlier - or, better yet, remixed slightly to create a natural ending or a faster fade. If they were more open to the format, there could have been a killer 12" version too. Ultimately, it comes from an album that was chockfull of potential singles. At the time, I didn't rate Angeleyes. I wondered why DYMK came out when the rest of the album offered better choices. But the public seemed to like what came out. Chiquitita was/is such a powerful song that I can see why it came out as a single. The UNICEF angle was such a strong promo tool too, with the broadcast performance working well as a video AND as a reminder to the public that it was a fundraising single. The snowman clip didn't emerge until later in the year? It wasn't part of the Switzerland special. I'm not even sure that it was broadcast (widely) in 1979. I remember the coffee shop performance late that year on the Dame Edna show. I'm struggling to remember when I first saw the snowman clip.... Christmas TOTP, maybe? Or was that the coffee shop clip, too? I digress. IIWFTN remains a baffling missed opportunity in my opinion. Had that album emerged five years later, when the likes of Michael Jackson made it fashionable to milk LPs dry for singles, it might have had its moment on a 7" A-side. I should double check, but I think there was a 7" edit prepared and pressed - I think it appeared on Discogs? Does anyone else think that DSMD feels like a hybrid of JLT and IIWFTN? Just me? It also feels like the kind of thing could emerge nowadays as a buzz track for an anthology... Given that Voyage was "trend blind" and redolent of the group's heyday, I don't think it would be all that strange for IIWFTN to come out as a single now. It's a song I'd love to see in the Voyage show.
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Post by richard on Jul 28, 2023 10:40:48 GMT
Pretty much agree with everything Tony/ HOMETIME , writes, so I've nothing to add, really - but I will, a bit, anyway. Angeleyes and IIWFTN are probably my two favourite songs from the Voulez-Vous album, and I'm with those who think IIWFTN would have been a massive hit had it been a single - and I think that with renewed conviction every time I see the Mike Yarwood Show clip, especially. And Agnetha and Frida look stunning! However, as it is on the album, I do think the track goes on a bit, so for a single would've benefited, imo, edited to fade on the slow "If it ... wasn't ... for the nights ... "
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Post by iiwftn on Jul 28, 2023 15:35:33 GMT
Yes, it would’ve made a great single release. The Mike Yarwood Christmas Show figures got into the 20-millions so for four minutes at least, IIWFTNs had its moment to shine and I’m sure the Japan tv performance, likewise.
There’s something quite powerful about Agnetha’s performance on those shows. She looks like a woman not to be messed with! As ever, she really acts out the lyrics brilliantly.
Although the song lives on and the performances are there to enjoy online it does probably remain one of those magical songs that are not in the ‘Mamma Mia generation’-psyche.
But we know its quality.
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Post by iiwftn on Aug 6, 2023 15:36:12 GMT
Just as an aside, it’s fascinating to see the difference between Agnetha’s and Frida’s interpretation of the song, particularly on the Japan performance.
At the risk of over-simplifying, Frida is living the music, whereas Agnetha’s (quite literally) living out the lyrics.
Agnetha had an immense talent for really portraying the theme of the song through her expressions. I’d go as far as saying that it’s quite a raw performance, despite the uplifting feel to the song and balloon rainbow thingy in the background!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2023 15:55:45 GMT
I'm not going to go into the song's merits - I'd like to focus instead on its position in the running order on the VV album. Second-on-side-two tended not to be where ABBA planted their 'best' stuff, certainly in terms of 'lead single' material. It's the slot where, up to that point, they'd stuck things like 'Rock Me', 'That's Me' and 'Hole in Your Soul', not to mention 'Me and Bobby and Bobby's Brother' and 'Watch Out'.* My question is, when was the VV running order finalised and was it a relatively last-minute decision to 'hide' IIWFTN slightly out of the way? Was this confirmation that B&B (and/or others) somehow lost belief a little in the song? All reliable answers and unreliable speculation gratefully received!
* Later, we'd get 'Our Last Summer' and (much, much later) 'Keep an Eye on Dan', though not forgetting 'One of Us' which arguably bucked the trend - but I've got my own theories about that one!
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Post by johnny on Nov 14, 2023 13:33:36 GMT
I do think the track goes on a bit, so for a single would've benefited, imo, edited to fade on the slow "If it ... wasn't ... for the nights ... " I think this too. It gets very repetitive a bit like I am the City. It just goes on a loop.
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Post by iiwftn on Jan 3, 2024 22:30:58 GMT
The intro to the song is quite long but it has three distinct and utterly mesmerising parts; the initial ‘happy’ piano sound, then the funky guitar rift and then ‘bu-bu-bu’ the piano/base part leading into the lyrics.
Quick question re the Japan tv performance (my favourite of the two). Delicate subject as the couple were on the cusp of splitting, but is it just me or does it look like Bjorn and Agnetha might’ve had a few ‘words’ immediately before?
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Post by iiwftn on Mar 9, 2024 14:45:04 GMT
I'm not going to go into the song's merits - I'd like to focus instead on its position in the running order on the VV album. Second-on-side-two tended not to be where ABBA planted their 'best' stuff, certainly in terms of 'lead single' material. It's the slot where, up to that point, they'd stuck things like 'Rock Me', 'That's Me' and 'Hole in Your Soul', not to mention 'Me and Bobby and Bobby's Brother' and 'Watch Out'.* My question is, when was the VV running order finalised and was it a relatively last-minute decision to 'hide' IIWFTN slightly out of the way? Was this confirmation that B&B (and/or others) somehow lost belief a little in the song? All reliable answers and unreliable speculation gratefully received! * Later, we'd get 'Our Last Summer' and (much, much later) 'Keep an Eye on Dan', though not forgetting 'One of Us' which arguably bucked the trend - but I've got my own theories about that one! I can’t argue with the album track placement and it’s a fair point. I also think that B&B must’ve lost some faith in the song at some point because even though it made way for Chiquitita it never got released as a single at a later date. Likewise, I’ve never heard of any of the four ABBA members talk, reminisce or regret that the song wasn’t released. Thus, the song is simply what it is: an album track. As I said in a previous post, I am least grateful that (unlike Angeleyes) we have the two tv performances of the song (especially the wonderful Japan performance). And I would argue that it is still the most ‘commercial’ ABBA song that wasn’t released into the singles charts. And I also think it would’ve given the band their elusive 1979 UK number 1.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 9, 2024 16:19:10 GMT
Maybe the documentary will give them a moment to talk about the shoulda-been-singles? I wonder if CMP's new book addresses the decision to recast it as "just" an album track? I'm not going to go into the song's merits - I'd like to focus instead on its position in the running order on the VV album. Second-on-side-two tended not to be where ABBA planted their 'best' stuff, certainly in terms of 'lead single' material. It's the slot where, up to that point, they'd stuck things like 'Rock Me', 'That's Me' and 'Hole in Your Soul', not to mention 'Me and Bobby and Bobby's Brother' and 'Watch Out'.* My question is, when was the VV running order finalised and was it a relatively last-minute decision to 'hide' IIWFTN slightly out of the way? Was this confirmation that B&B (and/or others) somehow lost belief a little in the song? All reliable answers and unreliable speculation gratefully received! * Later, we'd get 'Our Last Summer' and (much, much later) 'Keep an Eye on Dan', though not forgetting 'One of Us' which arguably bucked the trend - but I've got my own theories about that one! Not sure I'd agree with that take on running orders. IMO, the Waterloo album suggests they hadn't clue how to structure a running order. The more general "wisdom" behind album running orders is that the weakest track is placed second last on side two, but ABBA certainly didn't seem to follow that "rule": LAYLOM, STMF and NDAI are great cases in point. And they didn't usually frontload the albums with hits either. Arrival, The Album, Voulez-Vous, and The Visitors opened with non-singles - or tracks that got A-side status in fewer territories. Even the ABBA album opened with Mamma Mia, which they had to be pressured into releasing as a single. My guess is that the tempo and key of a song, and then its running time, were the main factors in where it was placed.
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Post by jj on Mar 9, 2024 19:22:28 GMT
Regarding the Voulez Vous album's track sequence, all this talk had me pondering the effect of placing IIWFTN as song 2 of side 1, directly after "As Good as New", and when I imagined that, I realised both of these songs' intros are quite similar, melody-wise and also in general tempo. I think because of this similarity, they'd clash if they appeared any closer together, definitely if they were put on the same side, and it's probably for that reason that everyone in the group would have probably agreed that the album's opening song and IIWFTN should be separated by at least 6 tracks, and certainly not have a song with such a similar opening melody to track 1, side 1 be the opening track of side 2.
On the other hand, DYMK has a dark, urgent opening and a deeper-noted, masculine soundscape that offers a wonderful surprise to the ears (on first listen) on the opening of side 2. The intro is like the equivalent of a big muscle-man nightclub doorman/bouncer appearing suddenly on what is a predominantly women-dominated album, and on first hearing the album, for a split second, you caught yourself thinking "ABBA??!"
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Post by gary on Mar 10, 2024 17:58:46 GMT
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I can’t hear the similarity between As Good As New and If It Wasn’t For The Nights.
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Post by jj on Mar 10, 2024 18:07:46 GMT
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I can’t hear the similarity between As Good As New and If It Wasn’t For The Nights.
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but both intros to these songs sound to me almost interchangeable with only slight modifications.
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Post by iiwftn on Mar 19, 2024 8:16:27 GMT
HOMETIME, I just feel that the fellas have long dismissed a large bulk of their back-catalogue, with Benny being quoted as saying that ABBA made “maybe 15 good songs”, and both B&B focusssing more on the ‘Gold’/‘Mamma Mia’ big-hitters. That’s the impression I get. I would be amazed if we ever hear any ABBA member taking a deep-dive into the hidden gems of their album tracks.
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Post by foreverfan on Mar 19, 2024 12:06:10 GMT
I recall Bjorn mentioning quite recent about TKHLHC being a good song.... ( I agree but many don't ) and there may be others.. But you're right in the most part , outside of the " singles" they rarely mention any other track.... Its always in the the " ear" of the beholder, and for many of us there are great tracks outside of those 20 or so, or even worse the 15 you mentioned....
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Post by johnny on Mar 19, 2024 15:59:36 GMT
But your right in the most part , outside of the " singles" they rarely mention any other Graham, you are arrested. It is "you're" not "your" The Grammar Police.
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Post by foreverfan on Mar 19, 2024 16:13:33 GMT
^^^ Take me down.. 10 years of hard grammar......
Gone back and rectified sir....lol
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 19, 2024 16:33:46 GMT
I recall Bjorn mentioning quite recent about TKHLHC being a good song.... ( I agree but many don't ) and there may be others.. But you're right in the most part , outside of the " singles" they rarely mention any other track.... Its always in the the " ear" of the beholder, and for many of us there are great tracks outside of those 20 or so, or even worse the 15 you mentioned.... I agree with him re. TKHLHC too. Benny is a conundrum. I remember an interview with B&B on MTV around 1992, when Gold had just topped the chart for the first time. The interviewer was asking them about their pride in ABBA's music and Benny said something like "I can't believe we weren't killed for being so corny." Now, I don't know if that was a stab at false modesty or some level of distain for ABBA's poppiness. For all his preciousness about recording standards and the tiny number of those he rates, he must surely have some proper perspective now? If not, why invest time, money and ego in Mamma Mia!, the Voyage show and the Voyage album? Does the ker-ching of a cash register override all those qualms? With reference to Benny's number 15 - did he say recordings or songs? There is a difference when you weight that up.
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Post by bjorenny on Mar 19, 2024 17:49:02 GMT
That's true. He has previously stated TDBYC is a good song but bad recording, whilst Under Attack is a good recording of a mediocre song. SNC good song, bad recording (although it is perfection to my ears), KMKY both good song and recording, whilst MLML is good song, bad recording. He is his own harshest critic.
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Post by richard on Mar 19, 2024 18:05:49 GMT
Yes, it seems quite a few of us regard what B&B say about ABBA and their music often has to be taken, unfortunately, with a shovelful of salt!
And regarding their opinions of songs, I think songwriters will often be more critical of their work than their fans will be - and yet sometimes favour songs that their fans, generally, don't go a bundle on. In the latter case, it seems to be I Wonder and The King Has Lost His Crown when it comes to ABBA. But I happen to think both songs are great. And the tonality of Frida's vocal in TKHLHC is beautiful. Pity there isn't more of it in the song, imo.
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Post by johnny on Mar 19, 2024 18:23:00 GMT
Spot on, Richard. I think though all creative people - be they musicians, authors, photographers, film makers, painters (creative not DIY!) are very critical (and sensitive) about their work.
Yep and they may prefer their products not so popular with the public - and vice versa.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 19, 2024 19:17:50 GMT
True. I've been surprised over the years, hearing some artists being dismissive of and/or embarrassed by some of their most beloved hits.
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Post by iiwftn on Mar 31, 2024 8:30:38 GMT
True. I've been surprised over the years, hearing some artists being dismissive of and/or embarrassed by some of their most beloved hits. John Lennon was a classic example when years later, he told George Martin that he’d have re-recorded every one of ‘his’ Beatles’ tracks.
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Post by eddie on May 7, 2024 18:06:05 GMT
" if It Wasn't For The Nights " is an underrated gem. Initially it was scheduled for single release but unfortunately bowed out when " Chiquitita " was chosen instead and all royalties were given to Unicef. Such a missed opportunity for " If It Wasn't For The Nights ". A slice of polished pop. One of my favourites from " Voulez-Vous ".
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Post by iiwftn on May 21, 2024 21:46:48 GMT
As I’ve mentioned before (probably more than once), the Japanese TV performance is my favourite, but the Mike Yarwood show was interesting both for how absolutely beautiful the women look but also for the way it was shot, with the four cameras split focusing on each individual member. Pretty cool for 1978. Although miming, you get almost a level of anger (or perhaps more kindly put: ‘passion’) from Agnetha’s performance. She is fairly belting out her lines. I even love how she turns her head away when she finishes each line of the chorus.
A marked difference from their other performance on that show!
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Post by eddie on May 23, 2024 12:30:38 GMT
Iiwftn, I can vividly remember watching ABBA perform " If It Wasn't For The Nights " and " Thank You For The Music " on The Mike Yarwood Show way back in December 1978 and I agree I was totally blown away with both Agnetha and Frida. Beautiful !
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Post by iiwftn on May 24, 2024 4:24:07 GMT
Iiwftn, I can vividly remember watching ABBA perform " If It Wasn't For The Nights " and " Thank You For The Music " on The Mike Yarwood Show way back in December 1978 and I agree I was totally blown away with both Agnetha and Frida. Beautiful ! The last performance before the first marriage break up and the ultimate warning that it was about to happen!
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Post by Alan on May 24, 2024 6:58:03 GMT
The last performance before the first marriage break up and the ultimate warning that it was about to happen! Yes, I do love that story. It was mentioned again on the recent Against The Odds documentary. At the same time it was being broadcast in the UK on Christmas Day, Agnetha was formally leaving him with the children. In all likelihood though, the decision was probably made before the show was filmed on 10 December and they were likely still living in the same house but not as a couple. There’s absolutely nothing in the Mike Yarwood footage to indicate what was going on though. How did they do that? I always tend to think it’s the One Man, One Woman video from earlier in the year that gives more away, you can really see it in their faces. By December, the decision was made and some of the pressure was off. Even so, hats off to them. ABBA was about to have a busy year and this life-changing situation was happening that would have a huge effect on their personal lives and particularly their children.
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Post by HOMETIME on May 24, 2024 14:07:53 GMT
As I’ve mentioned before (probably more than once), the Japanese TV performance is my favourite, but the Mike Yarwood show was interesting both for how absolutely beautiful the women look but also for the way it was shot, with the four cameras split focusing on each individual member. Pretty cool for 1978. Although miming, you get almost a level of anger (or perhaps more kindly put: ‘passion’) from Agnetha’s performance. She is fairly belting out her lines. I even love how she turns her head away when she finishes each line of the chorus. A marked difference from their other performance on that show! Although the mix is missing the strings and (probably) a layer of vocals, I prefer the Mike Yarwood performance. It's a bit more focused and the set is not some technicolour fever dream. The black costumes are probably the best ABBA ever wore: a good mix of slinky sexiness and elegance. I like that the stage set is a stylised take on an Art Deco-adjacent font, delivering a version of the ABBA logo, complete with a backwards B. The whole thing is quite contained, keeping the four members in close proximity. Knowing now that Agnetha's and Bjorn's divorce was looming large, you really have to admire their professionalism. Also knowing that they were booked to appear on the show again in 1980, it would have been just ahead of the announcement of Frida's and Benny's divorce. Talk about history repeating! I reckon it would have been performances of Super Trouper and Happy New Year. The former in those awful pink/purple taffeta suits, I'm guessing, and the latter around the piano in their white evening dresses/suits. Taking the UK and Japan performances of IIWFTN in fairly quick succession, I feel sure there must be a single edit/mix lurking in the vaults. I'd love to hear it.
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