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Post by Alan on May 24, 2024 15:20:49 GMT
Also knowing that they were booked to appear on the show again in 1980, it would have been just ahead of the announcement of Frida's and Benny's divorce. Talk about history repeating! I reckon it would have been performances of Super Trouper and Happy New Year. The former in those awful pink/purple taffeta suits, I'm guessing, and the latter around the piano in their white evening dresses/suits. I know I’m going off-topic here but someone said recently that Benny announced the end of their marriage to Frida in the October? I’m struggling to believe that, as all the videos and promotion for Super Trouper seem to show affection between the two (as I think you pointed out). I really can’t believe Frida - or anyone - would be able to hide it that well. Björn’s and Agnetha’s split was different as there was no one else involved. I did actually like the pink and purple Happy New Year suits! They certainly suited Agnetha’s (by now more fuller) figure much better than the white dress did. Anyway, back to topic. If It Wasn’t For The Nights is one of the first ABBA songs to reference a real marriage break-up isn’t it? We rightly know so little about what they were going through but there’s so much in the lyrics. If you’re calmly stating that you lose your temper ten times a day then things really can’t be good. |
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Post by HOMETIME on May 24, 2024 16:38:40 GMT
Maybe it has something to do with the tempo and the bright arrangement, but I always felt that the anguish in IIWFTN was pretty temporary. As if the girls were singing to their fellas down a long-distance phone line, or something, and that he'll be back in a few weeks. To me KMKY is the first definitive song about separation/divorce. OMOW is about a troubled relationship, but there's a sense of hope in it, that all they need to do is work on things. Like you say, the video is quite telling: Agnetha looks so forlorn.
I kinda feel that Bjorn might have been using a bit of misdirection to hide the truth in some of those songs. Could KMKY and OMOW be about him and Agnetha, but masking the story by having them sung in the first person by Frida? On the basis that his and Agnetha's divorce did not involve a third party, could TWTIA be about Frida and Benny - again, hiding things by giving the lyric to Agnetha?
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Post by iiwftn on May 24, 2024 21:01:48 GMT
Although the mix is missing the strings and (probably) a layer of vocals, I prefer the Mike Yarwood performance. It's a bit more focused and the set is not some technicolour fever dream. The black costumes are probably the best ABBA ever wore: a good mix of slinky sexiness and elegance. I like that the stage set is a stylised take on an Art Deco-adjacent font, delivering a version of the ABBA logo, complete with a backwards B. The whole thing is quite contained, keeping the four members in close proximity. Knowing now that Agnetha's and Bjorn's divorce was looming large, you really have to admire their professionalism. Also knowing that they were booked to appear on the show again in 1980, it would have been just ahead of the announcement of Frida's and Benny's divorce. Talk about history repeating! I reckon it would have been performances of Super Trouper and Happy New Year. The former in those awful pink/purple taffeta suits, I'm guessing, and the latter around the piano in their white evening dresses/suits. Taking the UK and Japan performances of IIWFTN in fairly quick succession, I feel sure there must be a single edit/mix lurking in the vaults. I'd love to hear it. Excellent post. The reason for my choosing Japan over Yarwood is two-fold. One, THOSE costumes 😍 and two, Japan plays the entire (magnificent) intro whereas Yarwood only allows for the final third of it; a deal-breaker for this fan of the song. But both performances are awesome though. As I said before, sad as I am the song isn’t better known, at least for three magnificent minutes, well over 20M people in the UK watched and listened. I was probably one of them but I was only five at the time! For a woman going through a split, Agnetha is laser-focused on the Yarwood show; powerful and extremely cool! |
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Post by Alan on May 24, 2024 23:06:20 GMT
On the subject of the Japan stuff… it’s quite amazing that they can all still fit into those 1977 tour outfits more than 18 months later (I can only assume they’re originals and not re-creations - surely they wouldn’t have had the budget to run some more up?). In the meantime, Agnetha had been pregnant and given birth, and was going through a marriage break-up, but here they were looking like early 1977 ABBA again, so all was well (or appeared to be).
I’d go with the Mike Yarwood performance though. Those black outfits do look good, as do the four different coloured screens.
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Post by Alan on May 24, 2024 23:24:56 GMT
OMOW is about a troubled relationship, but there's a sense of hope in it, that all they need to do is work on things. That was another thing that stood out in that Against The Odds documentary. I’m still not quite sure why they had Germaine Greer commenting on it - I think she was one of the few talking heads that had no connection with ABBA during the period? - but she highlighted the key lines “Sometimes when I just can’t cope, I cling to a desperate hope. And I cry and I feel like dying”. As this dates from before Christian was born, if it’s autobiographical then you do have to wonder why they thought a second child was a good idea… |
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Post by Michal on May 25, 2024 6:24:14 GMT
As this dates from before Christian was born, if it’s autobiographical then you do have to wonder why they thought a second child was a good idea… I think I've read somewhere that Christian was actually the last (desperate) attempt to save the marriage. And as HOMETIME pointed out, I really believe the song was given to Frida because it might have been too much for Agnetha at the time. She surely doesn't look happy in the video (almost like Frida in One Of Us). |
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Post by Michal on May 25, 2024 6:27:58 GMT
OMOW is about a troubled relationship, but there's a sense of hope in it, that all they need to do is work on things. And all the more tragic as it didn't work in the end. For me One Man, One Woman is the most poignant song in ABBA's catalogue. |
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Post by iiwftn on May 25, 2024 8:33:24 GMT
Going back to the Japan performance did anyone else pick up the vibe between Agnetha and Bjorn at the start?
I also noticed during ‘I Have a Dream’ at the dimly-lit Wembley Arena concert, Bjorn casts an olive-branch gaze at Agnetha at one point but she stays focused on Benny key tinkling.
There are other little bits of shade cast in one or two other performances.
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Post by matt on May 25, 2024 12:54:05 GMT
I always assumed Benny told Frida their marriage was over in January 1981 after Stig's birthday celebrations and then announced it in February.
Probably reading too much into it but I always noticed at the beginning the performance of Thank You For The Music in Live in Concert at Wembley that there are a few shots of Frida standing behind Benny resting on his shoulders. She tries to interact with him but he pulls away. It says in Bright Lights, Dark Shadows that during the 1979 tour, there was a massive fight between the two of them which resulted in Benny having marks on his face and needed make up to cover it up. After that, it seemed a spark went out of their relationship.
According to CMP's new book, an early recording exists of OMOW which lead vocals split between A+F similar to TNOFTG.
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Post by Alan on May 25, 2024 13:13:03 GMT
I always assumed Benny told Frida their marriage was over in January 1981 after Stig's birthday celebrations and then announced it in February. That’s what I thought too, but recently there were these two posts… In the Frida song “She Got What She Wanted” from 1996, does Frida not sing about being told something in October or November?? I did put two and two together to think it was autobiographical, especially as many other songs on the album were personal. Somebody else here mentioned it a while back and seemed to give an oddly specific date. Something like 26 September or thereabouts. I imagine the announcement had to be processed and managed through Stig's office and that announcements would have been delayed until after the promo. But when you look at the TV promotion they did for the album, Frida is in ebullient form, and really affectionate with Benny on camera, so I imagine these performances must've been pre-bombshell. I agree with HOMETIME - all Super Trouper’s videos and TV performances must have been “pre-bombshell”. But we know the circus footage and photos were done in the October so that surely rules out the September date? lamont’s November speculation therefore seems like that was the earliest it could be but when did they do those German TV performances? Apologies for me taking this off-topic. Just that with that Mike Yarwood performance of IIWFTN being broadcast on the day that Björn and Agnetha’s marriage symbolically ended, it’s made me wonder what the equivalent time was for Benny and Frida. I’m really struggling with the Sept-Nov suggestions. |
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Post by Michel on May 25, 2024 15:23:14 GMT
lamont ’s November speculation therefore seems like that was the earliest it could be but when did they do those German TV performances? I looked it up on ABBA on TV. The Show Express performance was filmed on 27 November 1980. Benny and Frida were joking with each other during On And On And On (pretending to bump heads and laughing). I can't imagine Frida doing that after being told that Benny would leave her for another woman. |
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Post by Alan on May 25, 2024 19:39:50 GMT
I looked it up on ABBA on TV. The Show Express performance was filmed on 27 November 1980. Benny and Frida were joking with each other during On And On And On (pretending to bump heads and laughing). I can't imagine Frida doing that after being told that Benny would leave her for another woman. Thank you! So that would suggest all promotion was done by the end of November (kidnap threats prevented it continuing into December). Benny could have dealt the blow in December but perhaps January is still more likely. We know that Frida effectively (and understandably) fell apart and that this break-up was possibly a major factor in ABBA not continuing after 1982 (the commercial decline being the other major factor, as well as B & B being hell-bent on writing a musical). It would take Frida around two years to get over it. Not sure how accurate it is but the impression we get is that Björn and Agnetha’s split was a mutual decision, and perhaps slightly more Agnetha’s than Björn’s. Reality set in later but it certainly seemed that - initially at least - it did them both good. I picked up from the recent re-showing of ABBA In Switzerland how confident Agnetha looked. That seemed to have been lost by late 1980 and throughout 1981. |
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Post by HOMETIME on May 26, 2024 11:04:15 GMT
CMP's new book mentions that Benny, Frida and their children went to New York in January 1981. Newly married Bjorn and Lena, Lasse Hallstrom and Tomas Johansson were also with them. The book describes it as a private visit, with Broadway shows on the agenda for B&B who were looking for inspiration for their musical.  In a 1984 Shine-promo interview, Frida spoke of the last three weeks of their marriage being the best part: it was when they really opened up and properly communicated with each other. So I guess she had moved on to the philosophical stage by then. A German journalist I know told me about an interview with Janne Schaffer in which he said that Frida really, really wanted out of ABBA in 1981 and that she wasn't back to her old, fun self until the Head Over Heels video. I think it was suggested that the solo album might have been the carrot dangled to keep her on board. I guess the TV presenting gig might have been a healthy distraction between studio sessions for an album that assigned Frida lyrics like WAISAD, LAAPTMR and SILOC. Yikes, we really have gone off topic! If it Wasn't For The Nights is a banger and should have been a single!! (Does that help?  ) |
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Post by iiwftn on May 26, 2024 13:31:50 GMT
Yikes, we really have gone off topic! If it Wasn't For The Nights is a banger and should have been a single!! (Does that help? ) The thread has evolved organically. Discussion of the break-ups comes from the lyrics so it is on-point as far as I’m concerned. 🙂👍 |
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Post by Alan on May 26, 2024 13:32:28 GMT
A random and useless fact about If It Wasn’t For The Nights was that the intro of it was used as title music on the video tape “ABBA Music Show 2” (along with Intermezzo No. 1). All of seven promos for what were then high-priced video cassettes, but it seemed quite magical to have these promo videos to watch over and over again, especially after 1982 when ABBA were rarely on TV. A reminder of the track listings. There was apparently a version that combined both (which is what this Discogs listing refers to) but my brother’s were separate tapes. Music Show 1 is clearly based on the running order of Side 1 of Greatest Hits Vol 2, but Music Show 2 has a much more random running order (though still four tracks from Side 2 of GHV2). It was the first time I’d seen many of the videos.  There was later a Music Show 3 which we never had or even knew about at the time. It contained most of the post-Winner Takes It All promos with the exception of One of Us, along with the two big solo hits. |
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Post by Alan on May 28, 2024 20:17:21 GMT
In the Q&A at Voyage (from PopJustice):
Benny mentioned that the Voyage band are wanting to do “If It Wasn’t For The Nights”, but he thought it would need cutting down a bit because it’s too long.
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Post by HOMETIME on May 29, 2024 12:10:30 GMT
I like that everyone is thinking about other material for the show. But at what point do we actually get it? IIWFTN would be a great fit. The vocals are really energetic.
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Post by jj on May 30, 2024 6:29:10 GMT
Thank you! So that would suggest all promotion was done by the end of November (kidnap threats prevented it continuing into December). Benny could have dealt the blow in December but perhaps January is still more likely. A Danish ABBA fan told me in mid January of 1981 that Frida and Benny had separated. I remember it shocked me and I was really sad. So... if people like her (from the general public) already knew by mid January 1981 that B and F had split, how long before that would it have actually happened? A month? If so, that would mean they might have split in mid December 1980. |
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Post by johnny on Jun 15, 2024 8:17:35 GMT
It could have been a single and in the UK they couild have taken advantage of those huge TV audience for the Mike Yarwood Show.
However, I feel it needed to be edited, not the intro but the chorus which seema to be on a loop for a while. This wasn't long after editing SNC, which ultimately they were unhappy with. Was that a factor?
From Waterloo to The Visitors albums, with the exception of Arrival, there was alwaysva slight variation in some countries about single releases, or order of release.
ABBA/record companies seemingly just felt it to be single material anywhere.
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Post by Alan on Jun 15, 2024 9:43:56 GMT
My thoughts on IIWFTN remain that the European record companies (and perhaps worldwide?) possibly weren’t keen on it. Plus Chiquitita emerged and was more appropriate to launch UNICEF’s Year of the Child.
As with When All Is Said and Done, once there’s a lukewarm response, any plans to release the song then or in the future are abandoned. Perhaps a reason why ABBA look so awful in the One of Us video is because they weren’t expecting to have to make it at that point. WAISAD was meant to be the first single and already had a video. They must have been cursing the various record companies for rejecting it. Similar might well have been the case for IIWFTN (although there’s no video for it, it’s notable that there wasn’t a proper one for Chiquitita either).
Things happen for a reason.
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Post by HOMETIME on Jun 16, 2024 10:17:13 GMT
It makes you wonder how things might have been if they'd been signed to the one label worldwide. Or how the strategies might have been if things were shifted a few years into the future. Michael Jackson seemed to usher in an era where almost every track from an album could emerge as a single. I imagine that ABBA albums would have had more singles and better videos if they'd been an 80s band.
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