|
|
Post by richard on Nov 23, 2023 20:58:28 GMT
I wonder if this topic will hold much interest for the few regulars here?
In the'The Beatles, The Rolling Stones...' thread, with discussion of Now and Then, two or three of us mentioned arrangements and their importance to our perceptions of a track. So I think a thread devoted to arrangements in popular music that we find apt or appealing or brilliant - or a let-down- might be interesting.
Of course the intention must be to arrive at an arrangement that enhances a song, such that it doesn't occur to the listener that the arrangement should be any different than it is; that the way the song is done has a feeling of inevitability about it. Whereas sometimes one might think that a given arrangement misses the mark for whatever reason and could have been done better. I think this about Just A Notion and Little Things on the Voyage album, as a couple of ABBA examples.
Not always, but often I like arrangements that, for me, have a sense of 'drama' about them, or contrast; holding things back in the sound texture, maybe, for greater impact later on. The surprising, the unexpected, in terms of rhythm, harmony, instrumentation, vocal layout... But perhaps it's difficult to achieve this in a short pop song? Or maybe it's a lack of imagination, or a failure of nerve, that explains it? And so a lot of the time the option seems to be to go 'full throttle', pretty much unvaryingly, from start to finish, with an arrangement of a track. And even if true, does it matter, anyway, when it's 'only' a short pop song? I think it does.
Unusual (unique?) for a pop single (which nevertheless still got to 15 in the UK in 1972), I love the all-strings arrangement of 'Say You Don't Mind' sung by Colin Bluestone. The strings give the song an impetus to the extent that one doesn't notice the absence of percussion - or the 'lack' of other instrumentation for that matter:
|
|
|
|
Post by bjorenny on Nov 24, 2023 7:22:13 GMT
An interesting post, Richard. In regards to arrangements, are there any ABBA songs that people wish had been released as a ballad instead of uptempo, or vice versa? Could Little Things have worked as a bouncy, sleigh-bell festooned number, or is its current understated form the way it always should have been? Angeleyes, on the other hand (perfection in my eyes), with its minor chords but cheery mid-tempo production, could that have worked as a slowed down acoustic ballad as per some of the cover versions?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2023 8:35:50 GMT
I have a bit of a fascination with both string arrangements and brass arrangements on pop/rock songs - both being somewhat specialised areas of expertise and make-or-break for many tracks. Will have a think and dig out some favourites.
|
|
|
|
Post by jchanabbafan on Nov 24, 2023 10:15:29 GMT
To answer bjorenny's question above "are there any ABBA songs that people wish had been released as a ballad instead of uptempo" I nominate 'The Winner Takes It All' Sure, parts of it are already a ballad....
From good old YouTube mid last year there was a version of this song on there that has all the drums removed. It was called 'abba 1980 the winner takes it all (special piano & vocal version)' but I can't find it now. I saved it before it vanished and it sounds incredible - the song takes on a symphonic vibe that is hidden in the released version. If you put it with the official video it is magical - it sounds even more depressing but is just so incredibly moving.
I admire the skills of the YouTube community and eagerly await their exploits with all things ABBA - sure, some of it is rubbish but sometimes you strike gold.
To reverse the idea - I much prefer the disco version of LAAPTMR and would like to hear the full version one day.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnny on Nov 24, 2023 12:51:34 GMT
I would love to hear The Winner Takes it All de-drummed. I have mentioned this before but I find the drumming to be intrusive and spoils song.
The Beatles released the Let It Be ...Naked album which removed Phil Spector's over-production on the original album. I would love to hear a more acoustic The Winner Takes it All.
|
|
|
|
Post by richard on Nov 24, 2023 13:27:06 GMT
Regarding Little Things, Bjorenny, ever since I heard a piano solo version of it, showcasing what a pretty melody it has, I've imagined it done with a bit more flair in a slightly faster, kind of classical/quasi-Mozartian, style. And, imo, preferably divested of its twee Christmas lyrics
One of the best-arranged pop songs, for me, is 'Breakout' by Swing Out Sister. I'm very surprised to realise it was released 37 years ago (1986) ! - where did the time go? Sensationally good horn/brass writing; and the song has other aspects I mentioned: contrast, variation, changing down and changing up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2023 14:13:37 GMT
Here's one of my favourite understated string arrangements, by Mick Ronson, no less. Ronno was definitely one of the great versatile talents of British rock/pop music. The strings kick in about halfway through this excellent song:
Another of my favourite string arrangers was/is David (now Dee) Palmer who sprinkled any amount of magic dust over multiple Jethro Tull albums in the 70s. I won't post any links, as I'm not sure there'd be much tolerance for too much Tull on this particular forum! Brass-wise, well - how long have you got? Sinatra albums from the 50s and 60s overflow with incredible stuff. Instead, I'll just drop in this anything-but-understated, very obvious and less than subtle effort from 1982 which has always floated my big brassy boat: |
|
|
|
Post by HOMETIME on Nov 24, 2023 15:02:27 GMT
The brass on Paperlate is terrific. I'm pretty sure it's played by The Phenix Horns (from Earth, Wind and Fire). I'm willing to bet that the arrangement was written by Peter Robinson, because it sounds like the fantastic brass arrangements on Something's Going On.
I love the dramatic brass and strings on this majestic gem (and those lyrics - I don't think I've ever heard anything more honestly romantic)
|
|
|
|
Post by jchanabbafan on Nov 24, 2023 22:02:49 GMT
If I added it correctly this is a drumless TWTIA - it still has (I think) bass guitar but it gives you the idea I was talking about earlier. Enjoy :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by richard on Nov 25, 2023 14:50:45 GMT
I think it's a pity that I Let The Music Speak - unlike I Wonder, for example - wasn't given a proper, real, orchestral arrangement. But The Visitors album came at the tail-end of ABBA's recording career - before, of course, Voyage came along four decades later - so maybe that partially explains it; and it seems Benny was happy enough that his Yamaha GX-1 synth could do it all well enough at the time.
Garry/thisboycries has mentioned the wonderful arrangements of songs (from 'The Great American Songbook', as it's sometimes called), by Nelson Riddle for some songs sung and recorded by Frank Sinatra. And here's another special arrangement by Nelson Riddle of a great standard song, composed by Jerome Kern (lyrics by Oscar Hammerstein), and sung by Peggy Lee. I included it early in the 'Favourite Tracks' thread, and for me it's a beautiful example for this thread as well:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2023 22:05:32 GMT
Here's an unusual one that's a firm favourite of mine, from Peter Gabriel's 1977 debut album. The London Symphony Orchestra give it some welly, rubbing shoulders with niftily funk-infused rock sections, plus a Beatles-esque and then full-on folky prog interlude. They had some fun with this one! Absolutely works for me, although some fans find it a bit too much. |
|
|
|
Post by HOMETIME on Nov 26, 2023 14:26:25 GMT
I think it's a pity that I Let The Music Speak - unlike I Wonder, for example - wasn't given a proper, real, orchestral arrangement. But The Visitors album came at the tail-end of ABBA's recording career - before, of course, Voyage came along four decades later - so maybe that partially explains it; and it seems Benny was happy enough that his Yamaha GX-1 synth could do it all well enough at the time. Agreed. I think that real string arrangements on both the Super Trouper and The Visitors albums could have made a wonderful difference. I get that Benny enjoyed his synths. Certainly, tracks like The Visitors, LAYLOM, Elaine, M&I, etc. benefitted from this. But imagine real strings on, say, STMF? I also think that the guitar solo there might have been more effective on Spanish/acoustic guitar. ILTMS is crying out for real strings. Later in the decade, Pet Shop Boys showed how brilliantly real strings and full-thrust synths could be a heaven-made marriage - prime example being Left To My Own Devices. Imagine the instrumental passages of The Visitors beefed up with strings? I'd love to think that the unreleased version of WAISAD with the violin solo could see the light of day at some point. Many parts of ABBA's own catalogue shows how beautifully synths and "real" instruments work together. I just wish they'd have continued that from 1980s onwards. |
|
