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Post by johnny on Mar 11, 2024 14:42:07 GMT
We all know ABBA had huge success in Australia for 18 months, late 1975 to early 1977. Six number one singles - and many other hits. Albums that sold over a million in less than a year. Australia's population at the time around 14 million.
Yes. they had Top 10 hits from 1977 to 1981 and Top 5 albums in this period too - hardly a flop.
But not a phenomenal. In album sales from over a million to 50k or so - a huge drop. There was simply a backlash to their over-exposure and insane success.
Like the rest of the World a revival with Gold and the Mamma Mia movies.
The Voyage album made #1 but sales were low.
For the Voyage show is it viable to be to be transported to Australia? Think of the cost. Would they have the fans to see it for a significant period of time? I am not so sure.
The London show doesn't have just Brits going but an international audience too. Australia doesn't have the domestic or foreign audience for a show.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 11, 2024 16:25:55 GMT
It's a topic worthy of its own documentary - or episode in a documentary series. That mini implosion really was to be expected after that level of overexposure. I wonder if the (apparently) sudden drop in commercial fortunes in the UK market in 1982 could be seen as a bubble bursting too? Or maybe the result of a slow puncture? Again, another candidate for documentary examination. They'd be less cheerful episodes, but fascinating nonetheless.
I was thinking much the same thing about locating Voyage in Australia. The population of 25.69 million is big. But how accessible is the country for tourism? Maybe our Australian members can shed some light on how big the tourist market is - and whether Voyage could enhance that? While ABBA's bubble burst in 1977/78, I think their status has recovered enough to lure many of their old fans out of the woodwork. Would the installation of the show cost another $140 million, or would it be a lower cost? ? I would hope that some of the development costs are not needed again and that some files could be copied (he said, exposing his utter ignorance of such techy complicatedness). Would Australasian investors see it as a worthwhile punt?
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Post by ttbboo66 on Mar 11, 2024 19:22:50 GMT
I wonder if the (apparently) sudden drop in commercial fortunes in the UK market in 1982 could be seen as a bubble bursting too? Or maybe the result of a slow puncture? It is easy to see why they did so poorly that year when you consider what they released (and compare this with what their contemporaries were putting out). Even their music videos in 1982 were bland, uninspiring, and outdated. The "drop" had little to do with exposure (of which there was very little in 1981) and was more about the quality of the music.
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Post by johnny on Mar 11, 2024 20:53:33 GMT
HOMETIME,the decline in the UK can be seen as a slow puncture as you put it. The production costs of Voyage was £140 million (about $175 million). That is huge, then there's the running costs too. I would imagine the production costs wouldn't be anything like that but there's still relocation and running costs. Add together they haven't (probably) broke even in London - despite sell outs every night, being on the door step of mainland Europe and tourists from all over the world, it seems unlikely Australia would be a good choice for location.
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Post by truedogz on Mar 12, 2024 9:05:48 GMT
I lived in Australia when ABBA were active so can describe what took place during that period.
ABBA was claimed to be 'discovered' by Ian Molly Meldrum who hosted a Sunday TV pop program on the national broadcaster called Countdown. His claim isn't really true as songs such as Waterloo and Ring Ring were played on the radio prior to his involvement. What he did do was regularly play the clip for Mamma Mia resulting in its release as a single. With that success the record company released that song in the UK moving the band's career forward. In Australia older songs such as those mentioned were promoted along with SOS, I Do, Honey Honey etc. Everywhere you went you heard the songs playing on radios.
What happened then was Molly Meldrum turned on ABBA. The release of the Arrival album was a massive event in Australia with feature newspaper articles. At the end of each Countdown show the number 1 hit for the week was played. In the case of both Dancing Queen and Fernando (which spent lengthy periods at #1, I think Fernando still holds the record) after a few weeks he chose not to play them but IIRC Australian songs instead. From then on Meldrum played ABBA hits less often, rarely in full. Others in the music media also turned on the band branding them uncool and rubbishing them. I really don't think that the public were sick of ABBA but rather that the media were.
Even after this with reduced exposure ABBA remained very popular with the public. When the band toured oz in 1977 the scenes were incredible. The only performers that matched them in tour mania were the Beatles in 1964 and Taylor Swift this year. ABBA remained popular till they broke up in 1982 but had much less exposure. Their star had faded a bit as they produced less of the outwardly happy songs of their early years but never totally waned. So while ABBA might have declined due to changes in music direction there was definitely also an active campaign against them by the local media industry. The commentary at the time was quite critical of the Visitors album which some now acclaim - it just wasn't quite the ABBA of old. Would Fleetwood Mac have recieved the same criticism for evolving?
From my perspective my favourite period for ABBA was from Ring Ring to Arrival which in Australia I'd call peak ABBA from the public's perspective. Benny has said the two recordings he is most proud of are DQ and KMKY so even in his mind their seems to be some perception of a peak at this time. ABBA created many fine recordings afterwards but the only one to rival the critical acclaim of those two is TWTIA. From Bjorn and Benny 3 of their best 5 recordings were released from 1975-7, 2 from 1978-82.
Through the 80s their songs were still played on the radio, less often though as they were not current. The tribute band Bjorn Again I think started in oz and Priscilla Queen of the Desert was made in Australia demonstrating that their songs were still much loved.
As to whether the Voyage show would succeed in Australia I think it might only do so with tourists from Asia. ABBA are popular, even known by todays teenagers, but a population of 27 million is not enough of a base. From personal experience I can't say if there is enough interest in Asia to support the show in oz, others would know better.
In my opinion away from London they are most likely to succeed in Las Vegas or the west coast of the US. The show would be supported because of the spectacle and novelty. ABBA hits are better known in the US than what many outsiders think with other artists and critics now singing their praises. If Mamma Mia worked in the US then so too would Voyage.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 12, 2024 13:22:01 GMT
Thanks, truedogz - great to have lived experience here. I didn't realise that the media pullback had started before the 1977 tour. Another example, I suppose, of ABBA triumphing in the face of begrudgery. Did Molly Meldrum fancy himself as a bit of a starmaker? Your thinking on the viability of the show seems to match that of mine and johnny 's: there'd be heavy reliance on tourists to keep bums on seats. My guess is that if push came to shove in a choice between locating it in Asia or Australia, they might end up making a decision on what they saw in ABBA-The Movie...? Is Australia a tourism hotspot for Asian people?
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Post by truedogz on Mar 12, 2024 19:10:35 GMT
Yes Molly Meldurm considered himself to be a starmaker and to his credit actively promoted emerging Australian bands. So yes the pushback by him and others against ABBA started before 1977. In 1976 when Fernando was released it was #1 week for 14 weeks and Meldrum refused to play the clip, playing the number 2 songs and not even mentioning the song's name or the band towards the end. The same year for Dancing Queen Meldrum acclaimed the song initially and again would not play the full clip at end of the show. After that he didn't give ABBA a lot of airplay.
Oz is a massive tourist destination for Asians, particularly China. Whether they would travel there to see Voyage is another matter. I am unaware how popular the band is outside of Japan.
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Post by johnny on Mar 12, 2024 21:50:20 GMT
Informatice posts Truedodz.
It's fascinating that the decline in popularity kind of started with the start of the Australian tour and a media backlash a little earlier.
Arrival was a massive seller. The Aussie version contained Fernando and 2 other huge #1 hits DQ and MMM
I wonder what the reaction to KNKY only getting to #9 was? Perhaps they weren't too fussed as Arrival was such a big seller and KNKY was released several months after its release. Why buy the single when you had the album it came from? Realisation of downturn might have only came with TNOTG peaking at #6 and The Album at #4.
I think peak ABBA was in singles terms from SOS up to and including TACOM. Australia got off the bandwaggon a year too early.
A bit of consensus about the viability of Australia as a destination for Voyage. I don"t know much about sales in Asia but what I know is GOLD was very popular - as it was everywhere. But its release a long time ago now. Certainly the Voyage album not a big success.
Plus those Asian countries are still a long way away. I too think the US is a much more likely venue. Yes, the Americans came late to the ABBA party but they came in huge numbers
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Post by angela on Mar 13, 2024 6:06:44 GMT
From what I remember when Fernando was Number I for about 14 weeks, people in the audience started booing so Molly Meldrum decided to play other songs, then people were upset about Fernando not being played. The switchboard had a lot of angry phone calls. with the way things are here in Victoria, The state government spend for different projects while people are struggling for housing and the hospitals are also struggling with Nurses leaving if it would be a good idea to have Voyage here.
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Post by truedogz on Mar 17, 2024 9:24:02 GMT
From what I remember when Fernando was Number I for about 14 weeks, people in the audience started booing so Molly Meldrum decided to play other songs, then people were upset about Fernando not being played. The switchboard had a lot of angry phone calls. with the way things are here in Victoria, The state government spend for different projects while people are struggling for housing and the hospitals are also struggling with Nurses leaving if it would be a good idea to have Voyage here. Apologies for the late reply but I have been involved in a funeral for a few days. Angela I can tell you with absolute certainty that the booing of Fernando and other ABBA songs by the audience at Countdown shows was initiated by the crew - it was a set up, at least initially. My sister attended the show and was not an ABBA fan and her along with others have told me precisely what happened. After the first week it became the accepted routine to boo ABBA at the prompting of the crew. So Meldrum was in fact responsible for it starting and not as a response to the audience. Informatice posts Truedodz. It's fascinating that the decline in popularity kind of started with the start of the Australian tour and a media backlash a little earlier. Arrival was a massive seller. The Aussie version contained Fernando and 2 other huge #1 hits DQ and MMM I wonder what the reaction to KNKY only getting to #9 was? Perhaps they weren't too fussed as Arrival was such a big seller and KNKY was released several months after its release. Why buy the single when you had the album it came from? Realisation of downturn might have only came with TNOTG peaking at #6 and The Album at #4. I think peak ABBA was in singles terms from SOS up to and including TACOM. Australia got off the bandwaggon a year too early. A bit of consensus about the viability of Australia as a destination for Voyage. I don"t know much about sales in Asia but what I know is GOLD was very popular - as it was everywhere. But its release a long time ago now. Certainly the Voyage album not a big success. Plus those Asian countries are still a long way away. I too think the US is a much more likely venue. Yes, the Americans came late to the ABBA party but they came in huge numbers Johny with respect to KMKY in oz as elsewhere that recording is regarded as one of the best by the band. It along with DQ, SOS, MM and TWTIA are the ABBA songs most frequently played on radio today. It continues to be critically aclaimed here and on a radio talkback show last year was identified as the band's best recording by 'non-ABBA fans'. Having been around at the time the main reason it failed to reach #1 I believe was due to the huge sales of the Arrival album - most people already had it. DQ and F were released prior to the Arrival album. Post Arrival the songs in oz that received the most radio airplay were TWTIA, TACOM and DYMK. Others were played such as TNOTG,TYFTM and C while tracks from the Super Trooper and Visitors albums didn't get great exposure. Albums post Arrival sold ok but there certainly wasn't the airplay of songs from the ABBA and Arrival albums.
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Post by Michel on Mar 17, 2024 10:07:19 GMT
Having been around at the time the main reason it failed to reach #1 I believe was due to the huge sales of the Arrival album - most people already had it. DQ and F were released prior to the Arrival album. If I'm not mistaken SOS was released as a single in Australia in November 1975. One could also argue that most people already had SOS on the ABBA album which was released in September 1975 in Australia and was a mega seller. This didn't prevent SOS from reaching number one and spending almost double the time on the charts compared with KMKY. KMKY's failure to reach number one is all the more puzzling because its release coincided with ABBA's Australian tour, thus guaranteeing maximum exposure and promotion.
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Post by johnny on Mar 17, 2024 10:50:57 GMT
Although ABBA and Arrival were both Aussie #1 albums, the former had more impressive chart run, but latter had much bigger sales.
So in case of SOS, some fans hadn't the ABBA album whereas with KMKY, they almost certainly did.
The post Arrival albums did indeed sell okay but we are talking sales of 100,000 and less, not like ABBA's 600k or Arrival's near million.
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Post by Michel on Mar 17, 2024 14:07:47 GMT
Yes, but I don't think that's a reason why a record shouldn't reach number one. I think a record is made number one not only because of fans but also because of popularity with general record buyers. Here in The Netherlands I Have A Dream made number one for three consecutive weeks in January 1980, almost nine months after the Voulez-Vous album was released and a greatest hits album had been released in between. ABBA fans already had the Voulez-Vous album but the single still reached number one.
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Post by johnny on Mar 17, 2024 18:11:19 GMT
You are missing my point. Arrival was so popular in Australia in a short period of time.
I don't think Voulez Vous had quite the ssme impact in The Netherlands. Yes, popular but not in the same league.
Therefore more likely for 3rd or 4th single to succeed.
ABBA's huge sales with Arrival.had reached satuation point -so few fans left.
In the Netherlands, Voulez Vous, not quite. Plus it was Christmas that might have helped. And I Have a Dream wasn't on Greatest Hits Vol 2.
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Post by truedogz on Mar 18, 2024 7:06:54 GMT
I think Johnny's comments are spot on re KMKY you in oz. The Arrival album had massive sales and it was nearly one million in a total population of about 14 million at the time. Having lived through it in oz it was a phenomenon. I would also point out that sales are more relevant that chart position as the latter is affected by the competition - you can have single that tops at #2 outselling over time another that peaks at #1. Out of all the ABBA albums Arrival in oz was a phenomenon. If Dancing Queen had been released after the album's release I have no doubt that its sales would have been significantly reduced.
But back to original point and that is that the media in Australia turned against ABBA from about the time of the release of Fernando and certainly Dancing Queen. Despite the negativity in the media the band remained popular as demonstrated by the sales for Arrival and support of the 1977 tour. It was through the ongoing negative campaign that it eventually became cool to dislike ABBA.
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Post by angela on Mar 21, 2024 5:54:36 GMT
Truedogz, I think a lot of those episodes of Countdown had been erased, good thing too, I remember the media turning against them it was horrible, now who is having the last laugh, even people who weren't born during the ABBA years love them.
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Post by truedogz on Mar 21, 2024 9:25:16 GMT
Truedogz, I think a lot of those episodes of Countdown had been erased, good thing too, I remember the media turning against them it was horrible, now who is having the last laugh, even people who weren't born during the ABBA years love them. I understand your point Angela but also sort of miss Countdown as it was a good program in that it showcased Australian talent as well as some lesser known or emerging international musicians. It was a stable as was Hey Hey Its Saturday (when it was on in the mornings). As to Molly Meldrum he was a capable music producer and helped local acts through Countdown. While he certainly helped ABBA his claim to have discovered them was hyperbole and says something about his ego. How he treated them, stabbing them in the back, when they became huge was disgraceful. Why Molly Meldrum turned on ABBA was perplexing. Maybe something happened where he got snubbed or put back in his place caused his change in attitude. I have sometimes wondered why ABBA did not become huge in the USA and there may be several reasons. One of them appears to be an incident, confirmed by several music sources (who right now I can't recall), that on the USA tour they refused to have some powerful music moguls have front row seats (they wanted fans to have those seats). As the story goes the band left that city huriedly. That incident (you don't upset those people in the USA) along with their reticence to go on the road and industry pushback against overseas acts in response to Beatlemania may explain things.
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Post by johnny on Mar 21, 2024 11:39:26 GMT
Just as ABBA's success started to wane in Australia they hit #1 in the USA with Dancing Queen.
The following year, in May 1978, they went all out for American media publicity resulting in Take a Chance On Me reaching #3 and The Album selling over a million.
Then nothing. Eagle wasn't released. Nor Summer Night City. The star studded UNICEF concert in January 1979 featuring Chiquitita did not ser that song released until the end of the year.
ABBA squanderd the second half of 1978 and most of 1979 as far as America was concerned.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 21, 2024 14:41:22 GMT
That still baffles me. All that money just... blown. A rare top 3 hit and they didn't capitalise on it? Madness. There were (IMO) three further candidates for follow-up single on The Album: an edit of Eagle; One Man, One Woman; and Hole In Your Soul. All very American-sounding tracks (OMOW especially). They even had videos for two of them.
Atlantic refused SNC because the album wasn't ready - bonkers. Maybe they felt Chiquitita wasn't a perfect fit for the US market at that time, and January probably wasn't the right time for a single with the word Summer in its title. But IIWFTN was ready by then, and a 7" edit had even been made and test pressed (it appeared briefly on Discogs in the last couple of years). All of that seems like label incompetence to me, but the biggest crime was not following TACOM within a month or two. And what was the notoriously grumpy and pushy Stig doing during all of this?
Maybe the Against All Odds docu will mention this period?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2024 20:41:14 GMT
That still baffles me. All that money just... blown. This article from Expressen (18 may of 1978) shows how much money was invested (blown) "around 2.5 million kronor" , that in 1978 was around 600,000 dollars, and with inflation would be around 3 million USD/2.38 million GBP Today. Expressen 1978-05-18 Alf Montån saw ABBA on USA-TV, a music show on TV, where OLIVIA NEWTON—JOHN was the star. ABBA sang some of their most successful songs such as Dancing Queen, Fernando and Take a chance on me. ABBA's performance is part of an advertising campaign for the group in the United States. Record stores have special displays with ABBA. They may also show enlargements of laudatory reviews from pop magazines.You often hear commercials about ABBA on the radio. Their records are also played frequently on the radio. Around 2.5 million kronor were invested on the campaign. The hope is that the money with interest will be recouped in the form of increased record sales. ABBA's records have so far not been as successful in the United States as in England and Australia. They have been huge successes there. The next few weeks will show if the TV show has boosted record sales. I watched the TV show with American acquaintances, who had never heard of ABBA. They thought that Benny Andersson and — above all — Annifrid Lyngstad had personality.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 23, 2024 21:34:40 GMT
That is a LOT of money. That's the sort of bungling that should have lost someone their job.
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