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Post by shoshin on Jan 11, 2015 1:51:21 GMT
Danny recently started an ABBA backing singers thread, and this has prompted me to pose a question for discussion that has been intriguing me for a while. As we all know, during the 1979 US tour Agnetha was unable to perform on one occasion, as a result of a scary flight and landing. The concert was of course cancelled. Now, Agnetha's voice is right at the top of my extremely long list of reasons to love ABBA. And yet, when I think of all the disappointed fans who had waited years to see them, and imagine myself in that position.. can you guess what's coming? In theatrical productions main parts are often understudied because 'the show must go on'. ABBA had superb backing singers who would have known the songs backwards. So here's the dilemma: would ABBA not be ABBA without one of them, to the extent that you would rather have missed their concert than see, let's say, Björn, Benny, Agnetha and Lena in 1977 or Frida, Benny, Bjorn and Liza in 1979? The reason that this question interests me is that it can help to clarify the essence of the ABBA phenomenon, which is different for each of us. For example, when I really thought hard about it I realized that even if Björn plus either one (but not both!) of the girls was missing, it would still have been an ABBA gig for me, but Benny just had to be there. I surprised myself with this conclusion. So, we're all transported back in time to 1977 or 1979 (or forward to 2015; we can but hope!) and we have tickets to see ABBA live. But one or more of them can't make it. Do we want one or more understudies to step in to save the show?  |
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john
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Post by john on Jan 11, 2015 8:06:08 GMT
You mean, like in 1973?
I believe even if Agnetha wasn't there, I would have attended a concert with Anni-Frid, Benny, Björn and Lena Andersson in particular.
I mean, if ABBA had let Lena sing lead vocal in german on 'Fernando' as a guest singer whilst on tour in Germany...?
On the other hand, ABBA is uniquely the two A's and B's. Bee Gees are the Brothers Gibb, sometimes without Robin, sometimes including Andy. Beatles once was without Ringo, Pink Floyd has performed and recorded with different line-ups, as has dozens of the other classic acts.
ABBA never did attempt even that.
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Post by shoshin on Jan 11, 2015 11:24:24 GMT
Well, the People Need Love substitution was at an early stage of their career and live singing wasn't required. But I suppose we could broaden out my query (a bit early in the thread!) to consider whether such a tv substitution would have drawn howls of derision if it had occurred during Agnetha's second pregnancy as well as her first It's interesting that you imagine Lena replacing Agnetha, then suggest she could sing Frida's lead on Fernando. This may well have been feasible of course, and the understudying would have been simplified if a backing singer could turn their hand to either range and had both Agnetha's punch and Frida's warmth. But if there had been such an understudy system, then I'm guessing that there are ABBA fans on the site with more knowledge of the backing singers than myself who would argue that a particular backing singer would have been a competent replacement for one of the girls but not the other. Although this would take the thread in a rather technical direction, I'm quite drawn to this kind of detail if anyone has an opinion. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Jan 11, 2015 18:10:22 GMT
I'd be really disappointed if I had turned up to a concert and found any of them replaced. I imagine that if for some reason the other three were compelled to go on without, say, Agnetha, then the set would probably have been shortened a bit and Frida would probably have taken over a few (but not all) of the Agnetha leads. And vice versa, of course. Having one or more of the backing singers step into the breach would have been tragic.
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Post by dizzymoe33 on Jan 11, 2015 20:39:33 GMT
I would rather have the concert cancelled than not have all four of the main band being there to perform. Nothing against their backup singers, but if I am paying good money for tickets then I want to see "them" and not a substitute.
For example last December for Aids awareness day they had a big concert in New York where Bono from U2 was to perform but they had to use other artists like Bruce Springsteen and others to replace him. Just was not the same, nothing against Bruce or the others who filled in they did a great job.
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Post by Roxanne on Jan 23, 2015 0:59:56 GMT
I agree with others that I would prefer the concert to be postponed/cancelled - I could not stand the thought of going to an ABBA concert and having a stand-in for one of them. Doing this on a TV program was almost acceptable - but not a Live concert !
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Post by shoshin on Jan 25, 2015 16:20:18 GMT
True ABBA fans! I'm a bit surprised that nobody could even survive a live gig without Björn though. I mean, apart from vocals on his lead songs he doesn't really contribute musically (live), and if I never saw him in Spandex for the rest of my life I wouldn't exactly say that I had missed out on a bucket list item  Just being all controversial to keep the thread alive; there's too much agreement going on here for a healthy chat forum |
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Post by dizzymoe33 on Jan 25, 2015 18:41:41 GMT
True ABBA fans! I'm a bit surprised that nobody could even survive a live gig without Björn though. I mean, apart from vocals on his lead songs he doesn't really contribute musically (live), and if I never saw him in Spandex for the rest of my life I wouldn't exactly say that I had missed out on a bucket list item Just being all controversial to keep the thread alive; there's too much agreement going on here for a healthy chat forum Hehehehe.....too funny!   |
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Post by wrongnoterod on Mar 4, 2015 15:36:52 GMT
I doubt you will get many people that would accept any substitutions for either of the girls.
I dont think I'd be happy with substitutions from any of them.
People on other forums are still saying The Who are not The Who without Moon and the Ox.
No different here... fans are fans.
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Post by chelseacharger on Mar 5, 2015 17:51:49 GMT
I wonder if there ever was a contingency plan should something more drastic had happened on tour? They of course cancelled the one concert on the North America tour but what if one of them got ill or injured and more dates were under threat? As pointed out they had backing singers with them that were pretty decent performers in their own right. Thinking about it and weighing it all up, I'd be disappointed that the full line up wasn't there but that dismay would be multiplied if the whole show was cried off especially if it was my only real chance to ever see them live. The late '70's was a time before the big screens were a feature at big concerts and for many of the audience the band would have been small figures in the distance. If they were able to go some way in amending the situation and still put on a good show I'd be thankful for that at least.
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Post by shoshin on Mar 5, 2015 18:21:03 GMT
...Thinking about it and weighing it all up, I'd be disappointed that the full line up wasn't there but that dismay would be multiplied if the whole show was cried off especially if it was my only real chance to ever see them live... Yes, I'm surprised this view hasn't been more popular on the thread. I was hoping that people would really get into thinking about what their personal core, non-negotiable live ABBA line-up would be. But nobody is even entertaining the prospect of any one of them being absent, apparently preferring to see no members of ABBA live in their lifetime rather than three out of the four of them! While I'm a fan of all of the members, my number one interest is Agnetha's voice. Yet if I thought my only chance of seeing them live was in the balance through illness in the band, I find that I could get by not only without Björn but even without either one (but not both) of the girls. There would have to be either Agnetha or Frida, plus Benny though. That's my bottom line, or I want my ticket money back to spend on CMP's revised Complete Recording Sessions or summat. When I started thinking about this I was sure that Agnetha would be the most essential element for me, yet it turned out that it was Benny. This is why I reckoned that it might make an interesting thread. But the whole idea seems to be too painful for ABBAfans to even contemplate as a thought experiment |
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Post by chelseacharger on Mar 5, 2015 18:43:49 GMT
And a interesting and thought provoking experiment it is. Because it asks the wider question of when a band isn't really the band we know and love anymore if and when one or more members leave. Queen stumbled on without Freddie Mercury which on reflection seems unfathomable and indeed alienated many fans. Certainly AC/DC ploughed on when Brian Johnston came in after the sad demise of Bon Scott. It's probably that looking back after all these years that the four members who were always there, fixed, from start to finish are implanted in our minds and it just feels unthinkable for any of them to not be there. And as even the actual band name reflected the same four individuals maybe the group themselves thought the same. |
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Post by wrongnoterod on Mar 6, 2015 16:34:31 GMT
And a interesting and thought provoking experiment it is. Because it asks the wider question of when a band isn't really the band we know and love anymore if and when one or more members leave. Queen stumbled on without Freddie Mercury which on reflection seems unfathomable and indeed alienated many fans. Certainly AC/DC ploughed on when Brian Johnston came in after the sad demise of Bon Scott. It's probably that looking back after all these years that the four members who were always there, fixed, from start to finish are implanted in our minds and it just feels unthinkable for any of them to not be there. And as even the actual band name reflected the same four individuals maybe the group themselves thought the same. A frequent topic on many forums - "it isnt XYZ band without XYZ person". Unfortunately, fans dont get to decide who a band is and who isnt, and Queen is whoever May and Taylor say is Queen. You can boycott the albums and the tours, but, who actually is "Queen" is not per derogative of people who are not in the band. Same thing with Kiss, ACDC, Deep Purple, VanHalen, etc. People who never played in bands, often tend to think one member is infinitely more important than another, often, the singer, because thats who they immediately relate to... and often, the only way they can tell the difference between bands. Those of us who have been playing in bands for a very long time, will often disagree with this, and view bands as a sum of all parts, and if anybody is more important, we may point to the drummer - the person that the band takes all its cues from - and may view the singer as just another instrument that can be switched out. Sometimes not, it depends on the group and who you are asking. Musicians are a curious lot and often wont agree on ANYTHING, ever. In the case of Mercury, this idea doesnt really work, because he wrote so much of their material, and was certainly one of the greatest frontmen in rock history - in his case, nobody is really ever going to measure up to such an impossibly high standard. It would be like Van Halen firing Eddie and then looking for a replacement guitar player. Nope. |
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Post by shoshin on Mar 6, 2015 17:26:53 GMT
^ Well, for the purposes of my thread topic, let's assume Ola Brunkert is a given, so you've got your essential drummer there You've paid good money to see ABBA, and they are never going to come your way again. But on the night of the gig one of them, or two of them, or all of them except for Ola Brunkert, has gone down with a mystery virus. How ABBA-less can this gig get, before you want your money back rather than allow one or more of the superb backing musicians to step in as understudies? |
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Post by wrongnoterod on Mar 6, 2015 17:42:07 GMT
Heh. Ola would be pleased ;-)
Thats a tough call. For performance in concert, I doubt many Abba fans are going to be willing to pay for any other singers than Frida or Agnetha.
For me, if Benny is there, I'd probably accept a vocal understudy for one of the girls, take your pick. It wouldnt be quite as thrilling, but, it would hopefully still sound great.
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