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Post by shoshin on Nov 22, 2016 23:38:29 GMT
The forum is too quiet at the moment, so I am unleashing an obscure 'did you know?' that I have been saving for just this sort of a rainy day. Have a read and a listen and then why not post a reply to agree/disagree/discuss? Did you know that despite the plethora of pop production perfectionists who crafted Dancing Queen in the studio, and the fact that legendary bassist Rutger Gunnarsson was on duty, a pretty glaring bassline boo-boo can be heard on the recorded track? Have a listen to the descending line in between the final ' see that girl' and ' watch that scene'. It's at 3.09 on the official video (below), which I have set to start a few seconds earlier. If it doesn't strike you as incorrect, try the same line earlier in the song, at 0.32 or 1.58. Whether you hear the mistake and are wondering how it managed to bypass ABBA/Tretow Quality Control, or you want to know more about what is going on musically and why it is a mistake, or you don't agree that it's a mistake at all, post a reply and let's see if we can get some ABBA chat going on the forum  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 0:37:00 GMT
^^^
Yes, it sounds like a bum note. Like a rehearsal version that ended up inadvertently in the final cut.
Many years ago, when ABBA finally started receiving serious questions from Swedish media, a classically trained journalist (Camilla Lundberg) told Benny how impressed she was with the high production value of the group's work, adding impishly "if it weren't for that little mistake at…" (and here, unfortunately, I forget which song it was about), whereupon Benny indignantly denied that there was ever ANY error on their recordings. And in the end, she had to yield. I'll try to see if I can find that interview somewhere.
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Post by Fafner on Nov 23, 2016 2:00:04 GMT
Did you know that despite the plethora of pop production perfectionists who crafted Dancing Queen in the studio, and the fact that legendary bassist Rutger Gunnarsson was on duty, a pretty glaring bassline boo-boo can be heard on the recorded track? Have a listen to the descending line in between the final ' see that girl' and ' watch that scene'. It's at 3.09 on the official video (below), which I have set to start a few seconds earlier. If it doesn't strike you as incorrect, try the same line earlier in the song, at 0.32 or 1.58. I can't hear it. |
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Post by shoshin on Nov 23, 2016 9:35:54 GMT
...despite the plethora of pop production perfectionists who crafted Dancing Queen in the studio, and the fact that legendary bassist Rutger Gunnarsson was on duty, a pretty glaring bassline boo-boo can be heard on the recorded track?... I can't hear it. The whole song, the particular bassline in question, the difference between the final chorus and earlier ones, or the idea that the difference constitutes a mistake? |
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Post by josef on Nov 24, 2016 17:16:04 GMT
I can't hear it. I'll keep trying though. Maybe it's like those Magic Eye things which eluded me for ages until finally I saw the image.
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Post by josef on Nov 24, 2016 17:18:06 GMT
I need the whole thing isolating. My old ears can't differentiate subtleties so easily anymore.
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Post by shoshin on Nov 24, 2016 23:10:34 GMT
^^ It's not easy, buried in the mix and only causing a momentary discordance on a passing note. After 'see that girl', can you hear three descending notes on the bass? The last of these three notes coincides with the 'watch' of 'watch that scene'. The mistake is the second of these three notes which, in the final chorus only, is played a semitone (one fret on the bass) lower than it should have been. This briefly creates a chord (D7) that is not within the song's key.
I know that this may not seem a big deal, but for several reasons it's quite baffling that such a basic error survived onto the record. It would require Rutger to either not realize he had fluffed it, or realize it but not admit to it, and then nobody else in the band or in the control room to spot it either. It's not as if it would have been difficult during editing to copy the three notes across from one of the earlier choruses; after all, they had managed to chop out half a verse more or less seamlessly!
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Post by chron on Nov 25, 2016 1:11:44 GMT
Now that you've pointed it out I can hear it clearly, although it had never been apparent to me before! His playing is quite busy on this; he's gone for a rubbery, funk-like approach, and there isn't much time for the bum note to register (although he does sort of leaving it hanging there for a split second, doesn't he). Easy to make a small slip when you're bouncing along like that, I suppose. I doubt I'll ever be able to 'unhear' it now!
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Post by crackinup on Nov 25, 2016 19:14:52 GMT
I've always thought this was meant to be. It to me, before this thread, seemed as a special way to kind of bring the song down and begin the end.
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Post by shoshin on Nov 26, 2016 23:21:13 GMT
I've always thought this was meant to be. It to me, before this thread, seemed as a special way to kind of bring the song down and begin the end. I know what you mean, though that kind of a change is more common when a song has a cold ending rather than a fade out. But in this case, the note being played does not even appear within the scale of the major chord being played. As the author of a professional transcription of DQ states, it is '...a somewhat incongruous C♮ dotted-eighth note (briefly generating a non-functional V7 in G major) instead of the anticipated C♯. It’s highly likely that this was a simple slip that, for one reason or another, was never fixed'.www.stevieglasgow.com/transcriptions_e/dancing-queen.htmlIt's also worth noting that he didn't play this note when they played DQ live. One way of illustrating the nature of the error, in the absence of an instrument, is to sing the old 'do re me fa so la ti do' to yourself, but when you get to 'ti', try to sing instead a note higher than the 'la' that you've just sung but lower than the 'ti' that you were going to sing  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 12:13:05 GMT
I THINK I can hear it, on my tinny laptop speakers. If it's what I think I can hear, I reckon it could be a bit of the age-old 'bassist-gets-a-bit-ill-disciplined-and-'creative'-near-the-end-of-the-track-cos-he-thinks-he-can-'add'-something' syndrome. A bit of loosening up near the end is exactly what a lot of tracks need. Or it may be 'let's-leave-it-in-as-it-makes-it-all-seem-more-spontaneous' syndrome. Will try to listen through headphones later, to see if I'm listening to the right thing, which I'm probably not. Personally, I'm partial to a bit of dissonance. Beethoven started whole pieces with such moments.
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Post by Zeebee on Nov 28, 2016 21:33:36 GMT
I doubt I'll ever be able to 'unhear' it now! Ever since Joachim , on the abba4ever forum, pointed out a sound that occurs regularly in the verses of Nina Pretty Ballerina, I can't 'unhear' it, and I also can't 'unhear' a sound I later noticed in the verses of Another Town, Another Train and mentioned on A4E. I forgot to listen to that part of Dancing Queen after I first saw Martin's post about it. I suspect that it is something I have noticed and didn't think was a mistake. |
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Post by Zeebee on Dec 1, 2016 21:44:11 GMT
I've just listened to Dancing Queen, and I think it is, indeed, a mistake. I think I hear something similar in the Spanish version.
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Post by shoshin on Dec 1, 2016 23:46:21 GMT
I've just listened to Dancing Queen, and I think it is, indeed, a mistake. I think I hear something similar in the Spanish version. There should be no doubt about it. If the duff note was played in the same range as the girls' vocals, rather than on the bass, the clash would be toe-curling. Imagine Metal Guru by T. Rex (or Panic by The Smiths) with the middle note of the three note guitar riff taken down a semitone  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 8:55:17 GMT
Having listened back properly now - and speaking as a mediocre bassist who's played more than their fair share of dodgy basslines in their time - I've come to the conclusion that:
1. There's nothing wrong with what he does.
2. I quite like it.
I like hearing a bassist 'break out' a bit near the end of a song. I know it's a bit hackneyed but it absolutely works (for me, anyway).
I'd be interested to know what wombat makes of it.
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Post by WATERLOO on Dec 3, 2016 10:48:21 GMT
I also thought it was intentional. At least it's not really irritating.
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Post by gary on Dec 3, 2016 11:49:07 GMT
There seem to be quite a lot of mistakes in ABBA's recordings, surprisingly. Search for 'abba anomaly' on YouTube, and you will find a series of clips going into great detail about various songs. The guy who makes the clips seems to know what he's talking about. (No, he's not me!)
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Post by shoshin on Dec 4, 2016 0:22:30 GMT
I also thought it was intentional. At least it's not really irritating. It's not irritating because it is brief, embedded in the mix, and well separated from the vocals; I never heard it myself until I read about the mishap on various bass forums. It could certainly have been intentional, but that doesn't make it correct. We could move on to discussing how the note might have come to be played and recorded, if I could just convince a quorum that C natural has no place within the scale of A major |
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Post by shoshin on Dec 4, 2016 1:25:25 GMT
... 1. There's nothing wrong with what he does. 2. I quite like it. I like hearing a bassist 'break out' a bit near the end of a song... If 2. is the case, then of course so is 1 He is hardly 'breaking out' though, surely. On the contrary, during the outro he sticks like glue to the pattern he has used throughout the song. What you are hearing as a jazzy journey, a dissonant departure, only lasts for a single note. If you search YouTube for DQ bass covers you will find that, ironically, it's the imitators who have to get creative when it comes to the descent in question. This is because if they stick to the recorded bassline then, given that their bass is dominating the backing track, it will sound as if they have made the mistake. If on the other hand they play it correctly, the listener will hear both notes, which will also sound wrong. So covers tend to briefly step outside the descent or gliss down it. I include one example below. At 34 seconds, and at 2m 0s, the guy correctly comes down a semitone as per the record. But listen to the final one at 3m 10s. He glisses down from the D to B instead of choosing either the correct or the incorrect middle note. Also worth noting is that in the comments section 'Cardinal Egan' says 'Ha! I like the way you gliss over the mistake in the outro, where he plays a C-natural instead of C-sharp. I always wondered if anyone else noticed that... ;-) Nice.', and 'gnypp45' writes: 'Rutger G's famous little "mishap" occurs at 3:12 (3:08 on the CD), but... the poster (bassowman) glosses over that detail with a slide. :S'
The bassist in the clip below has decided to follow the recording exactly but, sensitive to accusations that he has played it wrong, he makes sure in his video description that listeners know that he knows: 'QUIZ : listen to the original song and find in that fantastic bass line the "wrong" note !'. The top comment on this video by 'backslash68' covers the ground that we have been discussing in this thread: 'The wrong note is at 3:11, just like in the original by ABBA. He plays a descending line D-C-B, but it should have been D-C#-B, like it was in the two previous choruses. That is a major botch - a C in a song keyed in A major! I wonder how they went on to master the track and print the record without correcting it first.' |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 10:31:13 GMT
Wow - there's quite a YouTube industry, isn't there?!
Personally, I'd always go with feel over theory. And the bass note in DQ feels fine to me. It's certainly not a major 'break out' (hence my inverted commas), but perhaps just a little border skirmish, in keeping with the fairly tight rein I imagine B&B used to keep on proceedings. Actually, there are lots of bass lines which have absolutely nothing wrong with them that I DON'T like and a fair number I DO like which sound a bit 'wrong', so 2. certainly doesn't always follow from 1. (at least not for me!).
No sign of wombat? I might message him.
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Post by piano12 on Aug 21, 2018 11:51:03 GMT
I've been hearing that mistake ever since the song came out, and every time I hear it , I makes me cringe. How could not have heard that? It's like that Road Runner cartoon where he plays the piano and hits that untuned note.
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Post by foreverfan on Aug 21, 2018 14:29:26 GMT
It's got people talking.... Spoiers ahead....Don't read if you want to have something spoilt forever.... ok I will not listen to it for the very reason If do notice it I will notice it forever and ruin a very good track. Personally I hate it when someone points these things out , as curiosity gets the better of you and there you have it , a ear worm that will always be there..  For example ( and I won't ruin it for anyone else) Chiquitita will now always be associated with a food item , because of some idiot on the radio thought t sounded as such, therefore ruined song. Many tracks from other artists have suffered the same fate, probably one of the most famous is ( sorry to Police fans) So Lonely, which now will always be associated with Sue Lawley , here in the UK. Therefore , cleaver as it might be to find these anomalies, personally I'd rather not know and politely a spoiler warning should have been given.. I do understand the thought behind it all and no offence is given. Full marks though for starting a discussion again, it has been quiet in here and with quite a lot going on as well...🙄 |
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Post by Fafner on Aug 21, 2018 16:38:20 GMT
2 years later, I still can't hear anything wrong with the bass at 3:09. I guess I just don't have a musical ear (I don't play any instruments).
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Post by shoshin on Aug 21, 2018 22:38:38 GMT
,,,cleaver as it might be to find these anomalies, personally I'd rather not know and politely a spoiler warning should have been given.. I do understand the thought behind it all and no offence is given... None taken But when I made this observation a couple of years back, the site was very quiet indeed, so any chat was better than none. And originally it was just one more entry in the 'Did You Know..?' thread. I think Mike or Roxanne moved it to its own thread, because the replies were digressing from the usually snappy 'Did You Know..?' format.
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Post by shoshin on Aug 21, 2018 23:27:11 GMT
2 years later, I still can't hear anything wrong with the bass at 3:09. I guess I just don't have a musical ear (I don't play any instruments).
If you load up the (musical) keyboard here:
www.onlinepianist.com/virtual-piano
and then press the D on your (computer) keyboard followed by C twice, that's 'see that girl'.
Now press quite quickly in succession O, 9, U (O not zero) That's the correct descending bass line heading towards 'watch that scene'.
If you repeat the 'see that girl' D C C, but this time follow it with O, I, U rather than O, 9, U, that's the incorrect line played at 3:09.
The mistake will be clearer if in both cases you can press D at the same time as the U and follow it with another two C's to make the 'watch that scene'.
I know.. life's too short for you to try this
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Post by gary on Aug 22, 2018 8:41:37 GMT
^
I think I shall remain happy in my ignorance...
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Post by Fafner on Aug 22, 2018 13:57:39 GMT
2 years later, I still can't hear anything wrong with the bass at 3:09. I guess I just don't have a musical ear (I don't play any instruments).
I know.. life's too short for you to try this I did actually try this thanks for the detailed instructions.
I can hear the mistake on the keyboard (it does sound more dissonant), but the recording still sounds to me perfectly fine. Maybe I have difficulty differentiating the pitch of low notes, usually I don't perceive the base melodically but as some background rumble.
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Post by shoshin on Aug 25, 2018 1:19:29 GMT
I know.. life's too short for you to try this ...I can hear the mistake on the keyboard (it does sound more dissonant), but the recording still sounds to me perfectly fine. Maybe I have difficulty differentiating the pitch of low notes...
A few posts back (Dec 4, 2016 at 1:25am) I linked to two DQ bass cover videos, the second of which is deliberately played exactly as per the track, mistake and all. The uploader is keen to point this out in case it looks like he has made the mistake! The correct line is at 2:00 on this video and the wrong one is at 3:11. His bass is prominent to make it stand out from the track, so it should be clearer than the original. |
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Post by Fafner on Aug 25, 2018 14:57:31 GMT
...I can hear the mistake on the keyboard (it does sound more dissonant), but the recording still sounds to me perfectly fine. Maybe I have difficulty differentiating the pitch of low notes...
A few posts back (Dec 4, 2016 at 1:25am) I linked to two DQ bass cover videos, the second of which is deliberately played exactly as per the track, mistake and all. The uploader is keen to point this out in case it looks like he has made the mistake! The correct line is at 2:00 on this video and the wrong one is at 3:11. His bass is prominent to make it stand out from the track, so it should be clearer than the original. Nope, I still can't hear the mistake even on the cover video. Perhaps the mistaken note lasts for a too short time for me to notice. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2021 20:21:36 GMT
I can't believe I never noticed this before today, having heard the song SO many times. I had to google to see who else had noticed and found this forum.
Whether a mistake or not, that note is unconventional in a way that is not heard in other ABBA tracks. I would not have left it in on purpose.
And now I will never be able to not hear it.
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