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Post by Alan on Jun 24, 2023 14:33:07 GMT
It's not about bonus tracks but rather about the way we listen to studio albums. I tend to listen to them from start to finish, no skipping, no interruptions. I actually love bonus tracks - the more there are, the better, but ideally I would place them on a separate disc. Thank you! I’m not the only one on here! 😀 I have contemplated separating the bonus tracks onto a separate “disc” in my iTunes, meaning each studio album would have one. That might be a better way of hearing them. In the days of vinyl and cassette, you’d even have that enforced break after Side 1. You could then decide to listen to Side 2 another time. In the 80s I used to get cassettes, and often one side of playing time would be longer than the other. I had an unfounded belief that fast-forwarding the empty tape at the end would eventually damage the cassette, so I’d sit through it. If it was Side 1 that was shorter, this meant an even longer break between sides than merely turning the record over! At upto 80 minutes, CDs did get rather long. With the record industry re-focus on vinyl, they’ve got shorter again. In the 1990s, ABBA would have been expected to come up with a longer album than Voyage. By chance they waited until album lengths were much more similar to what they were in the 70s and 80s. |
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Post by Alan on Jun 23, 2023 22:13:32 GMT
Stop it now! 😂
It’s just sacrilege!!! You’re not listening to The Visitors, but rather your idea of how you think The Visitors should be! For starters, The Day Before You Came could never have been part of that album!!
Your posts have made me want to start a pointless campaign to abolish downloading and streaming! In fact, bring back vinyl and cassette as the only ways of listening to albums, see how you substitute tracks then!!
I wouldn’t even remove I Have A Dream on Voulez-Vous and replace it with Summer Night City.
Blimey, is nothing sacred, not even the tracklisting and running orders of studio albums that are more than 40 years old? Off with your heads! 😂
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Post by Alan on Jun 23, 2023 7:28:12 GMT
The one thing I will say in favour about the 1982 songs is that their lack of an album home didn’t help. Although The Singles was mine, meaning I could play it whenever I wanted (and I did - loads!) there was a sense of it being familiar songs from the 70s and early 80s and then these two new ones right at the end. Plus the two b-sides were tucked away on singles.
I still listen to albums from start to finish, the way that I did on vinyl originally. I see them as art and that’s how they were designed to be heard. However, bonus tracks added to the end don’t really work. I’m kind of done once the album proper finishes, but then there’s more.
I quite like the bonus disc that came with The Albums CD box in 2008, as that had most of the non-album tracks (apart from those released in the 1990s). Tracks are in chronological order, though I’m still not sure what’s the best way of hearing them.
Hence why I’m so glad they did the Voyage album and didn’t have two orphan tracks.
(I know these days you can make up your own albums - and I do - but even that doesn’t seem satisfactory for the non-album tracks).
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Post by Alan on Jun 23, 2023 7:17:11 GMT
I really liked those two. As we know it’s not “real” anyway, the two video performances made a nice change and at least the ABBATars are still in them.
There’s also Waterloo which uses old footage, so altogether there are four songs where the ‘Tars don’t appear at all (aside from Björn’s brief appearance at the start of Does Your Mother Know).
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Post by Alan on Jun 22, 2023 20:47:35 GMT
Is it a myth that the two animation ones are there to allow the avatar generators to cool down? I’d like to think there was something in that, as it would then justify their inclusion (but would also mean they’re the least likely to be swapped).
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Post by Alan on Jun 19, 2023 18:02:31 GMT
Sorry, but I completely disagree. They definitely were not real people.
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Post by Alan on Jun 18, 2023 21:27:13 GMT
Was there a Channel 5 programme of the greatest ABBA songs of all time where The Day Before You Came was placed number 2 or something? Certainly quite high. The problem with things like that is that they can’t be taken too seriously. There would have undoubtedly been fan campaigns to vote for it multiple times or whatever.
If it doesn’t do that well on streaming, despite being on More Gold, it would suggest it isn’t as popular as it might seem.
I used to like TDBYC when I assumed the “you” was still around and she was merely remembering a typical day before she met them. I then learnt that actually no, the “you” has left her and she’s gone back to this existence. And there’s an even darker interpretation, that the “you” is her death, and it’s her ghost (or whatever) talking about her last day on earth. Nice.
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Post by Alan on Jun 18, 2023 11:50:59 GMT
There is that… it was was very unusual for ABBA to release two non-album b-sides on consecutive singles. Of ABBA’s five non-album A-sides, two of the others had used tracks from their then most recent studio albums as b-sides and the other a three-year old medley of folk songs.
I wouldn’t say popularity has anything to do with likes or dislikes of songs. I’m no fan of Super Trouper but it was number one for three weeks. Under Attack is to me very harsh sounding, and not my preferred kind of ABBA. And I don’t like processed vocals (aside from Cher’s Believe that started the trend, I can’t stand Auto-Tune. I heard Kylie’s Padam thing for the first time this morning and wasn’t at all impressed).
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Post by Alan on Jun 17, 2023 21:14:28 GMT
It’s a myth in terms of what some might think it means. ABBA were undoubtedly going to be taking a long break. Björn and Benny had met up with Tim Rice on ABBA’s November 1982 London promotional visit, and Agnetha was booked to make a solo album (and Frida a second at some point). Carrying on would only have meant getting back together after all that was done, several years later.
It was also partly a contractual obligation. ABBA had signed new contracts with Polar (well, Stig) in 1981 that were dependent on future record sales (with the implication that this meant future recordings). They effectively broke the terms of this contract, using the excuse that ABBA were no longer a major commercial success in terms of singles (and that this would have undoubtedly affected album sales).
And of course, Frida showed this contract to Phil Collins whose reaction told her what she needed to know… that they were being ripped off.
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Post by Alan on Jun 17, 2023 20:53:33 GMT
The John Lennon Collection took over from The Singles at number one. It was the Lennon album’s third week on the chart and, after languishing in the lower half of the top 20 for two weeks, began its run of six straight weeks at number one.
My memory is playing tricks on me…. I thought The Singles was at number 2 for weeks before finally reaching the top, but no; after entering the chart at number 6, it rose to number one in its second week before falling to number 2 for two weeks, a week at number 3 and then three further weeks at number 2. This would suggest that, had the John Lennon album not happened, ABBA would have spent a total of six (non-consecutive) weeks at number one.
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Post by Alan on Jun 17, 2023 20:03:17 GMT
It’s interesting that you see it like that. To me, it was clear they were on a downward spiral so, on that basis, I would have expected Under Attack to barely scrape the top 40. With reduced expectations, 26 seemed quite respectable. As much as I’m not that keen on the song, I wouldn’t hold it responsible for the chart position. The problem was the ABBA brand itself being seen as a 1970s relic, and I’m not sure anything they’d have done by this point could have bettered Under Attack’s chart position.
I was actually quite surprised when The Singles reached number one (which I think I only became aware of when it was mentioned on The Late, Late Breakfast Show).
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Post by Alan on Jun 17, 2023 19:22:32 GMT
It did do a bit better than The Day Before You Came though. With Head Over Heels stalling at 25 and The Day Before You Came at 32, a number 26 placing for Under Attack was an improvement and had seemingly stopped the rot. The fact that the album was already out (whereas TDBYC had been a brand new single) suggested things might be looking up.
What sticks in my head to this day is the report on The Money Programme from September 1983 where Björn and Stig were interviewed regarding ABBA’s/Polar’s financial problems. Part of the Under Attack video was shown and the narrator said the song was almost like a plea for sympathy (the later court case against Stig ultimately stemmed from these financial difficulties). Somehow that report has tainted the song for me ever since.
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Post by Alan on Jun 17, 2023 13:09:48 GMT
The first line in Hometime’s post reminds me that Under Attack became the first completely new ABBA song that I got before my brother! He wasn’t interested in getting The Singles so I got it instead (for my birthday which was/is conveniently in November). He later got the single, mainly because of the exclusive b-side. I don’t think I played Under Attack first, but I can’t remember for definite. I think I played all four sides in order so had to wait to the end to hear it!
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Post by Alan on Jun 17, 2023 10:28:09 GMT
Apparently Catherine Tate’s comment about ABBA has been removed from the broadcast, so if you try and listen out for it now, you won’t hear it (the rest of her interview is still there). Perhaps Björn too was angry about the leak, or maybe Benny was angry with him for apparently blabbing it to Russell T Davies in the first place…
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Post by Alan on Jun 16, 2023 18:37:33 GMT
Maybe a bonus track on a 90s The Visitors revamp. Did Benny and Bjorn go off it? It was on the deluxe of The Visitors in 2012 but that’s its only other issue (outside of expensive boxed sets such as 2005’s The Complete Studio Recordings). But by putting it on a mainstream compilation - and one with “Gold” in the title at that - the cat was well and truly out of the bag. Of the three complete 1990s issued songs, Put On Your White Sombrero seems to have the most affection from Björn and Benny, even making it to vinyl on a 10-track compilation of the five non-album A-sides and selected five b-sides/rare tracks. I Am The City, thanks to More Gold, also has a wide issue. Dream World is the least popular, with just boxed set issues and a single other appearance as a bonus track on the deluxe Voulez-Vous (2010). Its partial re-use in Does Your Mother Know might be the reason for this. The other two songs weren’t re-used (as far as I’m aware?) Åh, Vilka Tider (not first issued in the 1990s) is even more rare, not even appearing on the deluxe of Ring Ring (2013). A proper ABBA recording as it contains vocals by all four of them (something that Santa Rosa or She’s My Kind Of Girl do not have, despite being released under the B, B, A & F name). |
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Post by Alan on Jun 16, 2023 17:58:40 GMT
Absolutely not. By the time of You Owe Me One they really should have been capable of better. Both I Saw It In The Mirror and Two For The Price of One have their merits and, please excuse my arrogance, I feel really sorry for those that don’t see it like I do. With I Saw It In The Mirror you have Agnetha and Frida coming in to steal the show, and they were at their most powerful when they did this. And it’s exactly the same with Two For The Price Of One. Those vocals in the chorus really do it for me, more so than when A and F are centre stage. Plus it fits the dark theme of The Visitors. I seriously would not have liked this album as much without it.
The worst ABBA songs in my opinion are Åh, Vilka Tider (that everyone seems to conveniently forget about because there’s no English version) and You Owe Me One.
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Post by Alan on Jun 16, 2023 17:46:37 GMT
Catherine Tate was interviewed this morning on Zoe Ball Radio show. She is about to reprise her role as Donna on Dr. Who. She mentioned that Russell T Davies (Dr Who writer) is a friend of Bjorn and recently stayed with him on a trip to Stockholm. Bjorn told him about the two unreleased "Voyage" tracks and said watch this space for news about their release at a special event.... I really want to believe it’s true but as much as I love Catherine Tate, why couldn’t she keep her mouth shut? I can’t believe Björn told Russell T Davies this and wanted it quickly to become public knowledge. Benny is probably foaming at the mouth as we speak. [It’s wonderful that Catherine Tate’s Donna Noble is returning to Doctor Who but I’m equally excited about Bonnie Langford’s Mel Bush coming back properly for an episode after her recent cameo.] |
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Post by Alan on Jun 16, 2023 7:45:40 GMT
😂 bennybjorn. You can end your FOMO… Apparently Björn and Benny dislike the song, saying it’s “just a jingle”. Had they completed a fourth song in those August 1982 sessions, we probably wouldn’t have got You Owe Me One. There’s a Wikipedia explanation below as to why they recorded three tracks. You Owe Me One is Agnetha and Frida singing in unison throughout isn’t it? That’s how I’ve always heard it, though I’ve seen it said that it’s Frida-led. I can quite clearly hear Agnetha all the way through. From Wikipedia (most likely using Carl Magnus Palm’s books as a reference): “Having taken a break, on 2–4 August 1982 ABBA returned to the recording studio with two new songs written, "Cassandra" and "Under Attack". Both songs were recorded to Björn and Benny's satisfaction in these sessions, though they were sceptical that either would work as a single A-side. With the studio booked for the rest of the day, and nothing else ready for recording, they decided to work on some song ideas there and then. One idea Benny had was "a single melodic fragment that lent itself to being repeated in a series of ascending and descending phrases over several key changes". Working with Björn, he used this as the basis for an entire song. Within an hour they had written the whole melody, and had given the new song the working title ‘Den lidande fågeln’ (‘The Suffering Bird’). This song would be released under the title "The Day Before You Came". “ Back to Just Like That, and more from Wikipedia (again probably quoting CMP): “Back in the 80s, typical to how Benny and Björn worked, parts of the unreleased Just Like That were recycled for better use. A guitar solo/riff appeared as a melody line in , ABBA's last single, already in late 1982.” The fact that they did reuse parts of it in Under Attack suggest there were no plans to ever release JLT in its then-current form. Other tracks partly reused in others include Get On The Carousel and Dream World, both of which remained unreleased originally. I can’t find anything that Björn and Benny said negatively about I Am The City. Of the three May 1982 songs, they clearly didn’t like the other two. As I said, the fact that it was chosen for a mainstream compilation much later on, giving it a wider audience than any studio album reissue, suggests they remained fond of it. If they thought it was too good to use up as a b-side (resurrecting the disliked You Owe Me One in the process), what were they planning for it? |
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Post by Alan on Jun 15, 2023 9:44:50 GMT
Surprised the boys felt You Owe Me One was better than JLT. The biggest mistake in their music careers. I don’t think they did. They perhaps viewed it as something they couldn’t do anything else with, and as it seems they were losing interest in ABBA, they made the decision to use it up. They probably regret that now though. You Owe Me One is absent from some reissues, including the standard 2001 issue of The Visitors. As I say, I think they viewed Just Like That and I Am The City as tracks they could revisit and reuse parts of. It would have looked a bit desperate if they’d used them up for ABBA and then gone back to them. You Owe Me One was a track they definitely had no intention of reworking! |
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Post by Alan on Jun 14, 2023 20:47:59 GMT
I would really like to know what everybody's problem with Under Attack is. I've always liked it. Actually, the only 1982 song I don't think much of is You Owe Me One. And it's actually the fact that it was released on the B-side of Under Attack, which supports the theory of JLT and IATC being saved for a future album. If they were not, why not release one of them instead of YOMO? Both were superior. To me, Under Attack sounds really cold and harsh. I don’t like the way the vocals are treated. It’s not a track I enjoy listening to. However, that may partly be to do with the fact that it was their last single. We didn’t know that at the time, but there was just something about those final songs that indicated an ending. I wanted to think they would come back, but I didn’t really believe they would. I agree on You Owe Me One, I would say that’s by far the worst track in their catalogue. Again we get the vocals manipulated and there’s a lack of warmth to it. As I’ve said many times, this could never have made it onto an ABBA album so would have been a first single b-side. It therefore made sense to use it up as such. As Björn and Benny’s minds were clearly on making a musical at that point, I’d say it’s possible that they thought they could re-work Just Like That and I Am The City for that. And of course, the verses of JLT were indeed revisited. I’d like to know what they think of I Am The City. The fact it’s on More Gold, and they must have known that would give it quite a big audience, suggests they like it. However, aside from the deluxe of The Visitors and various boxed set issues, it hasn’t had much of an airing outside of More Gold. Again, it’s quite cold and harsh to my ears, and once again we don’t get true vocals, but because it came out early in the ABBA revival (and therefore something of a new beginning, not an ending), I don’t mind it as much. |
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Post by Alan on Jun 11, 2023 17:07:39 GMT
Just Like That remain a mystery though. They clearly must have liked the song, when they bothered to rewrite it for Gemini. Even the original verse was later used it Chess. And since then at least two covers of the original ABBA version were approved. So where does the defiance to release it come from? I think you’ve answered your own question there! Their opinion is that the original verses and chorus of Just Like That don’t go together. They then proceeded to try and prove their point by writing new verses for Gemini and using the original verse melody in Chess. I’m not sure cover versions need approval? Anyone can cover a song. It only needs approval if it uses the original recordings (which cover versions don’t tend to unless they include a sample). The publisher and writers benefit from the sale of cover versions but the original act as performers don’t. I Am The City/Just Like That and I Still Have Faith In You/Don’t Shut Me Down have some similarities in that both sets of songs were announced at a very early point. A 1982 Polar press release announced the titles as being recorded for ABBA’s next album (no mention of You Owe Me One - in all likelihood this would only ever have been a first single b-side so not worth announcing). The fact it took 11 and 12 years for them to eventually appear is by-the-by. And, of course, the latter two songs were announced over three years before their eventual release. Whereas the 1982 set were seen as a very weak basis for an album project, the 2017 couple were so strong that a whole album was then built around them. |
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Post by Alan on Jun 11, 2023 16:12:25 GMT
The two topics have been merged but elements of both titles retained. I appreciate this won’t please everyone but otherwise could have resulted in repetition or one of the topics being boycotted by advocates of the other.
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Post by Alan on Jun 9, 2023 19:54:01 GMT
Maybe I’ve just forgotten. In parts of the 1980s it was cool just to not mention ABBA at all (the one that sticks in my head is I Know Him So Well being introduced on Top of the Pops as a “Tim Rice song” with no mention whatsoever of Björn and Benny or ABBA).
And the one really horrifying talking head comment from the 1990s or later that I remember is Frida being described as looking like Agnetha’s grandmother. Who was that? A female but I can’t place her.
[No Russian spam today - have we beaten them? I’ve been checking the forum so often today and expecting an invasion but so far nothing. I have banned a few of their IP addresses but wasn’t really expecting that to stop them].
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Post by Alan on Jun 9, 2023 19:01:20 GMT
I don’t see Graham Norton having anything in the least bit bitchy to say about ABBA. There are limits which even he must be aware of. It’s not been cool to speak badly of ABBA since the bad old 1980s.
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Post by Alan on Jun 9, 2023 9:45:08 GMT
My comment was reserved for Björn alone. There is no way it could be used to describe any of the others, quite the opposite in fact. He likes to have his fingers in so many pies (the spam posts reminded me he had guest-edited Today in December) that I really can’t see him missing next year‘s Eurovision.
There is, of course, nothing to stop any of them attending as individuals. Even Agnetha might make it, as she doesn’t have to fly and could mainly talk in Swedish unless briefly interviewed. Benny might be absent, but as Agnetha was missing from the recent first anniversary of the show, it shouldn’t be a problem seeing three. In fact, Björn, Agnetha and Frida would be a nice trio even if sat separately as guests of honour in the audience.
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Post by Alan on Jun 8, 2023 18:04:02 GMT
Note the disclaimer, “Yes, I can only speak for myself, I can not speak for the others.” Translated, this means Björn alone may appear (possibly Frida too?). He’s such a media wh*re (sorry, media spokesperson for the group) that he wouldn’t dare miss it. |
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Post by Alan on Jun 8, 2023 14:36:09 GMT
Yes, I’m deleting them as I see them (I can delete them en masse so it’s not too difficult).
It will probably end up that we have to ban guests from posting. I can ban individual guests, but these have a different guest username for each post.
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Post by Alan on Jun 7, 2023 16:32:14 GMT
It does beg the question - what could have become of I Am The City and Just Like That? There are those that believe these were being “saved” for a future ABBA album, perhaps for 1984 release. I’ve always doubted that they had any real intention to get back together again after 1982, and that they only avoided a split announcement as a fallback in case things didn’t work out for them individually. They didn’t give a damn that they hadn’t said a proper goodbye.
But if this mythical album could have happened, would it really have included those two songs? It appears they didn’t like Just Like That from the start, but I Am The City went on to appear on a mainstream compilation. Not Gold but the next best thing, meaning more people may have heard this song than most of ABBA’s more obscure album tracks. More Gold also included all three of the later 1982 recordings.
I surmise, therefore, that I Am The City may have made it onto a mid-80s final ABBA album but Just Like That would not. There are those that believe Benny liked JLT to begin with but later went off it. I don’t buy that. Gemini did a vastly re-worked version of it so had ABBA used it, they would similarly have had to re-record it.
But would they really have used older recordings several years on? Particularly when they weren’t released in 1982? They were something to start with, I suppose, rather than having to begin again from scratch, but it’s not a great basis for a new album.
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Post by Alan on Jun 6, 2023 19:37:12 GMT
Yes they should have stooped after the first 2 tracks. Maybe an EP with Dan and Woman on it but that's about it. , it was this post that HOMETIME was referring to. He was right to point out that everyone’s favourite four tracks might be different. |
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Post by Alan on Jun 6, 2023 19:34:48 GMT
Yes, it’s looking like I might have to contact Roxanne again. Would be a bit of a pity though as some valid posts are made by guests. We’d just have to hope that they register and post properly.
Sorry, I’d only just seen today’s batch of spam. Now deleted.
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