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Post by josef on Nov 3, 2019 11:36:14 GMT
I wish you would simply post your thoughts and not edit them. Edmund is taking a break and he does understand we all have our own thoughts and opinions.
I don't recall many of these original comments and certainly not those about The Winner Takes It All. I have thought about this a bit and whilst it's not my favourite ABBA song, it's right up there. I think I take issue with your words on the song because, and I know/trust you won't take this personally, I feel that they come across as a little mean, if that makes any sense? I'm not sure you even truly believe them yourself! I just don't think what you say is true whatsoever. I listen to it after reading your words and it's like you're talking about another song! If you were talking about Without You as warbled by Mariah Carey I could understand it. Is that my bias? I honestly don't think so. However, I understand what it's like to dislike a song everybody else seems to love, often quite irrationally. I think my problem is that usually I 'get' why someone dislikes something and understand and appreciate the reasons why but not in this case. And not just because the maestro himself extols TWTIA. I think ALL of ABBA do. Yes, I just find the reasons you give to not be satisfactory. It's not enough for me for to read that a song is self-pitying when in life, this is just what happens. People ARE devastated when a relationship breaks down. They DO shed tears and fall to pieces. It's called being human. It's not a place to stay, just to visit. It's part of the process of grief. Why shouldn't it be portrayed in a song? Or maybe you think people should be strong and resilient and just get on with it? God knows I'd love to he like that but unfortunately I'm human and am occasionally subject to emotions that get the better of me, damn it! It's strange how When All Is Said And Done is often held up to contrast against TWTIA as somehow more worthy, and I adore the song, but in many ways I can picture Frida identifying with The Winner Takes It All. She did take the break up with Benny very badly, as many testify. Yes, I can easily imagine Frida feeling this way for a while, before healing and gaining the strength evident in WAISAD.
Anyway, they're both just songs depicting the reality of a break up, BOTH sides of the coin. I see nothing wrong with interpreting an aspect of human relationships with beautiful music, and incredible vocals infused with real emotion. That's art.
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Post by josef on Nov 2, 2019 9:49:34 GMT
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Post by josef on Oct 30, 2019 23:51:41 GMT
How great would it have been if that ABBA show on TV the other night featured these four songs instead? You know, for a change. Now, THAT would have made for an interesting discussion! It's true that many ABBA songs are trotted out time and time again (great though they undoubtedly are) at the expense of some real corkers in their back catalogue.
I see from orf's latest offering (thanks again for doing this!) that me and Tony have similar taste. Maybe that means I'll finally get those jelly babies and a go on his scooter!
It's interesting seeing this again because I'm reminded of how I didn't 'get' "When All Is Said And Done" for many, many years. I am sure I may even have slagged it off, to my utter shame. How wrong I was! It's a beautiful, BEAUTIFUL song and one which barely gets a look in.
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Post by josef on Oct 30, 2019 23:09:17 GMT
It would be a shame if you left, Edmund, but you must do what you need to do. I understand you are a sensitive soul. I am, too. I'd like it if you could understand that likes/dislikes aren't personal. We are a little group here and I think we mostly all get along well generally, don't we? There's no serious bad feeling, as far as I'm aware. I love the forum format, it suits me. Perhaps it isn't right for you? Especially as it clearly upsets you if someone has an opinion you don't share.
I hope this forum never folds as I'm not a massive fan of Facebook, etc.
Perhaps do as Tony suggested and blog? You could write out all your thoughts and take time composing them and put in all your thoughts and emotions regarding the songs. Many fans will agree with you and share the same favourites! As you know, I love The Winner Takes It All, too, so I concentrate on that shared passion we have and don't focus too much on how negative you are about Super Trouper, a song I also love. You see? I'm not upset with you that you dislike Super Trouper, not at all - I accept that we all have our (sometimes passionate), likes and dislikes.
Anyway, if you go for good then I wish you all the best but if you decide to pop back sometime in the future then it would be great to read your top 100!
Take care of yourself.
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Post by josef on Oct 25, 2019 20:09:11 GMT
If I was doing this now I'd have 'Lovers (Live A Little Longer)' in my top ten or top twenty at the least.
It's funny how tastes change. Or rather, mature. That's how I see it. I've learnt to appreciate certain songs much more as I've got older.
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Post by josef on Oct 25, 2019 17:33:08 GMT
Nice one for doing this, orf.
I see you've deleted your post about The Winner Takes It All. Shame, it was funny.
I remember the name ginger spice and some of the comments but this seems like Aaaaaages ago. I find it hard to remember contributing to it although I suppose I must have.
It's refreshed my feelings about some of the lesser known songs such as Hey Hey Helen, so I may give that a listen over the weekend along with a few I haven't heard in a very long time indeed.
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Post by josef on Oct 21, 2019 18:34:02 GMT
Well, Richard, it feels so good to know others appreciate Kate Bush as much as I do. I believe Alan is also a huge fan.
Sadly, I've never seen her perform. I informed my youngest sister recently about how much of a fan I am because so many people just think of me and then ABBA and although they are a massive part of my life, it's not everything.
I wouldn't know where to begin with explaining how much her music means to me or favourite songs (although there are some). A Coral Room would be one. I truly find it agonising to listen to. It's so beautiful and sad and makes me cry every time I listen to it. It takes my breath away and I struggle not to lose it. The song itself is about her mother and it follows that it makes me think of mine, too. It truly is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I have ever heard.
Nocturn from Aerial (the whole album, in fairness), Hounds of Love (Waking The Witch is a work of genius), Army Dreamers, Experiment IV....honestly, I could go on all night.
As much as I love ABBA, it really is Kate whose music touches my soul more than anything.
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Post by josef on Oct 21, 2019 17:57:30 GMT
Anxiety plagues many people, Edmund, so you're not alone. Today's world doesn't help matters- it's pretty grim out there politically and socially. You have to take care of your mental health as stress from all the grim things occurring in the world (and it's near impossible to avoid hearing about it) can take its toll.
Anyway, I'd agree about I Am Just A Girl for the most part. I just find it DULL. It's not a song I'd even think about listening to, and believe it or not there are quite a few ABBA songs I don't care for and wouldn't lose sleep over if I never heard them again.
I was speaking to a friend last night who is a talented artist and musician. The only problem is he has this slightly arrogant attitude towards his own musical taste and looks down on ABBA and Eurovision, etc. He sort of laughs mockingly and it really ****** me off. He was blethering on about Joy Division and REM (I'm fans of both) and I took pains to point out that they would in all probability be 'fans' of ABBA. I even tried to explain about The Visitors and the theme and how it was akin to Joy Division but it went over his head. I get it, cos I'm a stubborn so and so myself but I will at least concede someone's talent even if I'm not a huge fan.
As it goes, I actually really love Ring Ring, Nina Pretty Ballerina and He Is Your Brother. I even like Honey Honey loads! There's no need to apologise. Well, not to me, I see no reason to take another person's dislikes personally. I certainly won't apologise for MY likes/dislikes! So bring it on, Edmund! You're as entitled as anyone else here to express your opinion. You don't like something? Spill the beans! Of course, it's nice to wax lyrical about the things you DO like. But you can slag off Super Trouper until the cows come home and I promise I won't take offence. I know it's a great song and will continue to love it anyway. 😜
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Post by josef on Oct 20, 2019 13:37:29 GMT
Indeed, Richard.
I have quite a broad range of taste in music and it's not just stuck in the 1970's. My thing is very often just individual songs rather than the whole back catalogue of some artists. So, I'm familiar with and appreciate many artists from WAY back, Ella Fitzgerald being just one of them, but I also like modern music very much. It's impossible to hear it all, but I try to keep up. Having said that, I have my 'go tos' and that includes everything by Kate Bush (amongst others-I'd be here all day if I was to list them).
Edmund, a top 100 thing was created on the old forum abba4ever, and there were some amazing posts and analysis shared by fans but unfortunately it folded and there wasn't time to save anything. Such a shame as many fans went to a great deal of effort to compile their favourites listing their often heartfelt reasons. Many people, such as Pablo, posted lengthy thoughts on songs such as The Day Before You Came and Dancing Queen. Brilliantly worded, how I wish I could read their erudite thoughts once again. Oh, well.
You're right, it's a massive undertaking.
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Post by josef on Oct 19, 2019 19:30:42 GMT
I actually love Hung Up as a song in itself. Madonna's use of the sample was inspired. I love the video, too...everything about it. It's exciting and thrilling.
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Post by josef on Oct 19, 2019 19:24:57 GMT
Looks like I'm going to be checking out some songs by The Beatles! 😆
I guess I'm guilty of something many casual ABBA fans are...that is, only really knowing the singles and not exploring the albums. But in fairness if something hasn't really grabbed you to begin with then it's unlikely you're going to be checking out the back catalogue. Of course this invariably means you're missing out on some gems.
It's highly likely that if I'd been a teenager during the heyday of The Beatles I'd probably have been a huge fan. Ah, such is life. It's funny how certain music gets under your skin and lasts a lifetime.
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Post by josef on Oct 18, 2019 19:16:07 GMT
Yeah, I guess I am just not that fond of the sound The Beatles made in general. It doesn't please my ears in the same way Agnetha and Frida's voices do. I have some favourite male singers but it is the female voice I gravitate to. Paul McCartney's voice never thrilled me, or John Lennon's, for that matter.
Just as some people will always remain impervious to ABBA's charms, as I am immune to The Beatles. There's no changing my mind, anymore than I can change yours about The Winner Takes It All. And I'm not alone in that.
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Post by josef on Oct 18, 2019 13:55:16 GMT
I think Lovers (Live A Little Longer) and I'm a Marionette are actually two of ABBA's finest songs and woefully unrecognised. They are stellar! If anyone ever accuses ABBA of being bubblegum I always point them in the direction of these two songs and tell them to get a grip.
It really IS a question of taste. I might consider TWTIA to be a "mini-masterpiece" (Agnetha's own description and spot on) but others might not and that's fine. Someone else might see it as an overblown chanson or some such and although I can respect their feelings, I don't share them but neither do I get upset. Same with Super Trouper. To me, it is an undisputed pop classic...sung with such beautiful plaintiveness by Frida that I can forgive the supa pa pa's. And the theme of the loneliness of life on the road as a pop star has rarely been expressed so well in a three minute pop song. However...Although its merits are obvious to me, I don't presume to think others might share my view. It may be undisputed to me but not to others. The consensus is that Dancing Queen is a classic, its merits behind doubt. However, I knew someone once who detested it. He was an idiot, though, and it said more about his homophobia than anything else. He was rather TOO fervent. Hmmm. I wonder why he made such a big deal about it? Methinks he doth protest too much.
I like that cover of TWTIA hometime posted. I like the fact she places a different emphasis on certain words. I'll listen to that again actually.
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Post by josef on Oct 16, 2019 17:49:15 GMT
Many sounds from the 1980's sound 'dated'. There are classic instruments and arrangements which defy an era or genre. It all depends on intention. Angeleyes by ABBA...now wasn't that deliberately meant to sound sixties-like? Kind of Motown, retro?
I find this difficult because I know ABBA's songs SO well, I'm so invested in them that I'm not sure I can listen to them without prejudice. For all I know, a song like Lay All Your Love On Me might sound a 100 years old to a teenager's ears but to me it's still fresh. It's so difficult to be objective when you're so close to something. I really think this needs a new fan, young fans, to answer this question. There are some here but whether they regularly post or just lurk I don't know. Their input would be invaluable.
I also think people like hometime, orf and thisboycries might add valuable insight.
I think some of the Super Trouper album might be a little of their time...Benny's bombastic synthesiser flourishes (I love them, btw!). Under Attack, maybe? Y'see? I'm probably way off. That vocoder treatment is very popular right now and has been on and off for a while (I hate it, mostly).
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Post by josef on Oct 16, 2019 14:53:16 GMT
Never really been a fan of The Beatles. Their music has definitely dated. Of course they were talented but their songs could often be very basic and repetitive. The fact it was four blokes was never going to incite my devotion- I prefer the female voice. ABBA had it all and took it to another level. I'd never dream of listening to a song by The Beatles voluntarily. If I hear one I recognise then I just think, "Oh." It doesn't get my heart racing or my foot tapping. The lyrics could be thought-provoking though.
I daresay ABBA's songs will one day sound dated (some already do) but The Beatles have been firmly in the past for a very long time now. There's no denying their legendary status and it's sad only two members are still alive (George Harrison is my favourite- lovely chap) and they undoubtedly influenced many but for me, they just didn't grab me.
It's true that personal taste comes into it- it's easy to simply say something is overrated simply because you don't like it (although it can be true nonetheless). I was nearly apoplectic with rage recently when an acquaintance suggested Marilyn Monroe wasn't anything special and was overrated. I strongly disagreed but it's just his subjective opinion (as is mine).
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Post by josef on Oct 15, 2019 16:44:41 GMT
On the contrary, I like the title, it's punchy, if a little long. I like the sound of the girls saying the word, "gimme"- in fact, another gimme is desirable, as in the odd remix.
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Post by josef on Oct 15, 2019 16:40:17 GMT
^What I find a little strange is the fact you never seem to discuss anything BUT sales figures. That's your prerogative, of course it is, and it does have its place. It would just be nice to read what certain songs mean to you. Even I follow it to a small degree. But that's you, and you keep doing you. I always look to see if you post any new figures in the charts or records that ABBA have broken. And of course if ABBA didn't have the whole Mamma Mia thing and so on then they'd have become cult favourites and I've have been happy with that. The fact remains that whatever you say the QUALITY of something isn't dependent on how many units it shifts. It's a little frustrating that you don't seem to recognise this simple fact, that's all. Or maybe you do and I've got that wrong. Apologies if so. It's great that ABBA have sold millions of records but many artists sell a fraction of that and yet are still highly esteemed in certain circles.
Thing is, it's true that we probably wouldn't get these new songs if it wasn't for all the success of the Mamma Mia! cash cow so it's a double-edged sword.
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Post by josef on Oct 14, 2019 6:43:08 GMT
As I've made clear in the past, I don't hold much truck with numbers. However, those figures are impressive. I've taken a bit more notice recently and spotted that some songs have over a billion views on YouTube. Marvellous, but not often anything I think to have any real quality imo. That's the thing- quality over quantity every time. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if that Gangnam Style song had millions/billions of views but it's patently rubbish.
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Post by josef on Oct 14, 2019 6:36:18 GMT
I love the instrumental break where the girls sing like sirens luring men to their death on the rocks. It's really cool. I seem to recall some fans not liking it but I thought it was a great idea. I also associate it with Frida leaping about on stage doing her jazz ballet moves.
It has one of the catchiest hooks in pop music history.
Vocally, Agnetha is on top form. There's a zesty edge to her voice, full of loneliness and sexual frustration.
Interestingly, that intro impressed me hugely. I'd never heard a sound like that before. I find it compelling. ABBA sure how to concoct an intro. I don't know what they did to create that sound but it was unlike anything I'd ever heard before. I guess it was studio jiggery-pokery.
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Post by josef on Oct 13, 2019 13:55:08 GMT
Graham, my niece had singing waiters at her wedding and I absolutely hated it. So annoying and tacky. So there's no way I'd enjoy the ABBA party thing. It would be enough to give me indigestion. Don't get me wrong ...I have travelled to London and even Brighton to see ABBA related things but I simply can't be arsed now. I have all the music. The last ABBA related thing I bought I can't even remember. I've spent enough over the years. It has to be exceptional now for to want to buy something.
The tribute acts? Well, I guess they serve a purpose. I've seen Björn Again and of course I managed to suspend my disbelief-NOT! It's crazy how they have cultivated a career making cash from another group's back catalogue but fair play to them I suppose. It's not as of ABBA are about to reform any time soon, is it? 🤔
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Post by josef on Oct 13, 2019 11:42:17 GMT
Omg I did not know that about Agnetha and Michael Jackson! If only there was a demo recorded, you know? Amazing. I can actually imagine her singing that in my mind's eye.
As for quarrels on the Internet between ABBA fans, I know what you mean, Colin. We're a very mixed bunch. I often feel a little alone in that I tend to like things that other ABBA fans do not. Of course that's only a small percentage of fans that I've interacted with on the Internet. We can't always agree and it's wise and kind not to get personal just because someone might hold different views. Nuance is also missed so what might just be someone's dry sense of humour can be misinterpreted. I fell foul of that on the old abbasite. I have learnt a lot and now realise I wasn't the monster one particular mod tried to paint me as, there were culture clashes and misunderstandings, etc and of course some people just love to complain and be offended by any(every)thing.
This avatar "tour". I'm confused by that. It's not going to actually tour, is it? So based on that, I don't see how it can possibly recoup the cost if its only going to be in London or Stockholm or wherever. I don't imagine many fans will travel great distances to see such a thing?! I certainly wouldn't. Cost is imperative. If it's digital, I don't see why it can't simply 'travel'? I'm no techy, so I don't know about the ramifications of such a thing. If it was to turn up in Birmingham, I'd possibly go, but I doubt very much I'd traipse to London. And if the cost of the Mamma Mia the party thing is anything to go by, there's no way on earth I'm paying through the nose to watch pretend copies of ABBA! If it's gonna cost a bomb then I'd want to see the real thing. Sod that for a game of soldiers. It's just reality. If you weigh in travel costs, food, possibly overnight stay then you can imagine the price of seeing these avatars to go through the roof. All told, possibly stratospheric! Could probably go on holiday for a week or so for the same.
I'll wait for the DVD or download, methinks 😆
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Post by josef on Oct 12, 2019 8:42:10 GMT
I haven't seen any anger or quarrels here, not at all. Quite the opposite. On the contrary, I think the consensus is that we're all slightly miffed at how long it's taking but resolved to accepting that it'll happen when it happens.
As for the avatars, I think they're going to have to be mega-impressive after all the hype. Like looking at the real thing. Indistinguishable. That's my wish, anyway. I hope any artwork relating to all of this (promos, covers for the new singles, etc) is suitably arty and, not to put too fine a point on it, stunningly eye-catching and classy. If it's ABBA's last hurrah then it has to be "WOW".
The avatars will be the icing on the cake if truly realistic (just IMAGINE how it could be to see Agnetha and Frida singing new songs as their 1979 selves! It's mind-blowing) it's the music I'm mostly interested in.
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Post by josef on Oct 6, 2019 10:30:46 GMT
Frida could give Freddie a run for his money with on stage shenanigans.
Seriously, ABBA could grab an audience, especially Frida, but their natural shyness and reticence meant that they took a while to warm up. It's part of their charm for me. I think it boils down to something Tim Rice said about Agnetha. Words to the effect of how she didn't over-egg the pudding, how a little movement from her was worth more than a heavily choreographed routine from one of today's stars. And that's true of them all. They were fantastic singers and musicians but they weren't highly polished performers. Again, it's part of their charm.
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Post by josef on Oct 6, 2019 10:21:17 GMT
I'll give them a listen with an open mind but there aren't many I like and none that I prefer to the originals. I'm not averse to them although a really bad one can incite my wrath.
The kind of cover I like tends to be an acoustic version that's been given a very bare treatment. I don't see the point in trying to copy the original. I'm sure one day I'll discover a cover of an ABBA song that I like more (I know, sacrilege!) but it hasn't happened yet.
I noticed recently just HOW many of ABBA's songs have been covered! Sinead O'Connor has even covered Chiquitita. I like her work but for me this fell short
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Post by josef on Oct 5, 2019 17:54:08 GMT
I don't think anyone here seriously believes ABBA would ever do Glastonbury, not back then or now 😆 It's just a case of what if? They may well have been decried if they'd done it back in the 1970's but there's no doubt in my mind that IF ABBA did it now the response and buzz would be phenomenal because of their reputation and legendary status NOW. That's basically all I'm saying. But they'll be 80 soon, time flies. With the best will in the world they won't be bopping around on stage again anytime soon. Damn those lost years when they might have feasibly got back together and set the world alight. Instead we had Mamma Mia! to do that instead. 😈
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Post by josef on Oct 5, 2019 15:19:36 GMT
Interesting points and of course I know exactly what you mean. It's mostly wishful thinking on my part. I guess it's because people like Adele, Dolly Parton and even people like Kylie have recently performed at Glastonbury that I think, "Why not ABBA?" It is obviously meant in an ideal scenario. It's not going to happen now anyway. Let's just say it's a fantasy sequence in my mind, like The Name of the Game in ABBA The Movie.
Also, the age thing. Lots of performers still tour in their 70's. Blondie spring to mind. Yeah, ABBA simply don't want to do it. Like you said, they were intrinsically a studio band. I don't think they were as 'bad' live as they think. Stiff at times, but they certainly has their moments!
As for now? Ooh, I've always loved the idea of them on Jools Holland. An unplugged set. But sadly I don't hold out much hope of that ever happening. 😥
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Post by josef on Oct 5, 2019 12:08:05 GMT
Perhaps the festival atmosphere, the rough quality, might have put ABBA off but I think life is for facing new challenges. Even so, ABBA weren't The Rolling Stones. It's hypothetical now because Glastonbury is something I'd like to have seen ABBA do at the height of their powers. Even with the best will in the world I can't see it happening now. If there were some kind of time machine maybe. But there's no doubt they would get a rapturous reception.
I can dream.
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Post by josef on Oct 5, 2019 12:01:08 GMT
On the contrary, in a different time, ABBA would have been fantastic at Glastonbury and would go down a storm. It would be legendary. But that ship has sailed, sadly. Not because they're too old EXACTLY but kind of. If they feel too old, then I guess they are. It's all about attitude and approach. I actually wish ABBA had partaken in more big events, Live Aid, for example. Still, it's just a pipe dream.
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Post by josef on Oct 4, 2019 23:14:19 GMT
And I see Björn is still doing the "maybe" thing. For heaven's sake, give a straight answer, will you? Love him to pieces but honestly.
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Post by josef on Oct 4, 2019 23:05:51 GMT
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