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Post by wombat on Apr 4, 2017 13:18:25 GMT
Yeah; this thread is highly confusing for me, and I've just seen a few excerpts from this thread (and the excerpts from the book since I don't plan to buy it as of now), so I'd be more interested what guitar brand Björn Ulvaeus (Aside from the legendary star guitar.. A Hagström or a Norton-era Gibson?) used during his ABBA career, what mixers they used like 16-track or 8-track, or AMPEX and 3M, in the early period; what microphones Frida and Agnetha used, and how that 'The Visitors' bathroom sound was achieved (putting it in a humorous way, not in a very demeaning way), than Magnus Palm's commentary on how the unreleased, alternative mixes, something like that of a music sounds like.. I think MP can be rather biased, since a mere text won't get the idea of what any of these would sound like; yes, I acknowledged the author's intention to journalize, write observations (first edition), and cover the story behind any songs, and its connection to it, prior to, or early ABBA (e.g. Neil Sedaka, Ted Gärdestad), though, I'm not disappointed that Benny and Björn are being protective toward their multitrack tapes. It always reminded me of how Paul McCartney and George Harrison refused to release Carnival of Lights because they 'avant-garde' a clue.. after all, a text can't substitute an audio excerpt. I'd love to read a part where Benny and Björn almost got infuriated during the recording session in mid/late ABBA and called 'quit' for a while, if there's any source that reports that. But I've found quite interesting information that 'Ring Ring' was a nod to Phil Spector's Wall of Sound (I seem to have think that was a rumor, but it is true) Another musician! Nice to meet you. I've seen Bjorn with all kinds of guitars, even that nice Yamaha with his name on the fretboard. What would be MORE interesting to me would be, which bits on guitar did Bjorn actually play on the recordings vs bits played by Janne or Lasse or somebody else. With the keyboard, theres a lot less mystery because Benny was so good. Studio details would be great too, like who played glock or marimba, things like that. Did they use real plate reverb on the marimba or did they have outboard stuff back then like the old Roland Space Echo. Benny at least seemed pretty keen on getting the latest technology in things. We get brief things here and there, like how much they loved the old Neve consoles and how they went all the way to Los Angeles to get one for their own studio. Occasionally Tretow would give brief explanations about how they mic'd things or used them for effect. There was a video somewhere, Tretow explaining how he used three mics on Bennys keyboard, purposely out of phase, to get the phasing sound on the intro to SOS. Stuff like that intrigues me, its part art, part science, and you REALLY have to know what you're doing to pull things like that off. Its not like Abba played live in their studio, all playing and singing together, one take and that was it. Oh no. It was overdub after overdub and layer after layer. I've seen a pic of Aggie and Frida singing into a Neumann condenser and thats probably at least one of the mics they had at their disposal (who didnt back then). Who knows what else they had. The Polar Studio looked and sounded like a magnificent place to record. As far as the Spector sound, oh yeah, they were def. going for that in the old days. Sometimes they got a good sound with it, using the varispeed recording/overdubbing techniques, Ring Ring being a good example. Sometimes it turned to complete mud, like Bang a Boomerang. If you listen chronologically, as time goes on, they get farther and farther away from that, and instead, use the varispeed for small echo and reverb type touches to fatten individual tracks instead of the master out... but the emphasis seems to be on clarity of track instead of hitting us over the head with a wall of sound.
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Post by wombat on Apr 3, 2017 16:39:26 GMT
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Post by wombat on Apr 3, 2017 12:42:58 GMT
^ .... To any other members of this forum, I say buy it. You won't be disappointed! I spent way too much money on the first edition and was completely disappointed with it. Recording details are what I wanted, and there were all too few of those. I suspected at the time, it was because Magnus doesn't understand the recording process and so could not really comment on the particulars of it. Or perhaps he did but did not want to write a book like that, as he knows his audience, who might be completely bored and not buy it. I have no interest in reading a list of bunch of tunes that were worked on and then stopped. Every artist has that, a backlog of stuff that was started and then abandoned for whatever reason.
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Post by wombat on Mar 25, 2017 18:08:49 GMT
i took it down. thanks
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Post by wombat on Mar 25, 2017 15:04:53 GMT
sorry i'll try to repost in the correct place
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Post by wombat on Mar 24, 2017 18:55:55 GMT
^ Yes, I like some of the mash-ups, particularly the Blondie/ABBA Hanging On The Ring Ring. If anybody's interested, I just made a 800x1200 (cel phone or tablet) pic for your mp3 version of this mashup
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Post by wombat on Mar 22, 2017 18:39:40 GMT
^Is this the version you mean, Roddey? I don't mind a few of his mixes but that kick drum can get on my nerves- it gets irritating after a time. One beat blends into another and I can have my fill of it after quite a short while. It's the difference between fast food and home cooking from fresh. However, there are some fun elements.. I like the use of, ''We want ABBA!'' and This is gonna be worldwide!'' from ABBA The Movie. And in The Day Before You Came the use of the Dallas jingle was clever and inventive. I'm assuming that's Matt Pop? As for Arrival (the original song) I've always loved it- so evocative, I find it quite moving. yeah thats it, that one was pretty good. I read somewhere that Benny didnt like drums and thats one reason why the drums are pushed back so far into the background on many Abba tunes. That may all be lies, but I know I read that somewhere.... doesnt mean its true of course hey, Bjorn and Benny may have heard all these cover versions and who knows what they thought... does anyone know of a specific cover either of them said they liked?
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Post by wombat on Mar 22, 2017 16:11:45 GMT
the Matt Pop stuff mostly doesnt work for me. Some of it is ok, the Arrival version is interesting
but mostly he cranks up a fake kick drum to make it all sound like disco.
yuck.
just my opinion.
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Post by wombat on Mar 22, 2017 12:57:55 GMT
thanks everybody!
I'm not sure what happened on the album sleeve. If the original photo is the one Fafner posted, then for the album sleeve, it was either intentionally altered or there was a printing error.
I'm sure they used those magenta spotlights on the sides to bring out her magenta dyed hair
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Post by wombat on Mar 21, 2017 21:55:15 GMT
this looks a lot more natural to me, but, that may just be my old eyes and old monitor you can definitely see the magenta-red spotlight on the side of her face i didnt try to hide that
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Post by wombat on Mar 21, 2017 21:51:08 GMT
thats a lot better source fafner, thanks
I might play around with that on my own.. sure is better than the one on the album sleeve
I cant decide if it was a printing accident or somebodys terrible "cool" idea
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Post by wombat on Mar 21, 2017 16:58:49 GMT
great pic! I've seen that one, on a cover sleeve of I See Red, altho I am not sure if that was a Polar release or a fan made pic. However I think the two pics above in question, might have been made with the awful picture of Frida from the inside sleeve of the Somethings Going On album
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Post by wombat on Mar 21, 2017 15:25:17 GMT
are those two intentionally hot in the yellow?, or, did you have difficulty with the coloring in general (as I did, if you got the pic off the album sleeve, its one of the worst printed pics in history)... I couldnt ever get that stupid pic to look right ;-)
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Post by wombat on Mar 20, 2017 15:56:16 GMT
Well, in 1982 the future of ABBA was not that clear. There were plans to do another record after The Singles. We don't know how half-created these were but I don't think that any of the four thought ABBA was over at that point.... I've always believed that at least one of them did. No matter what sort of niceties they said in the press. By 1982, one or more of them wanted out, permanently, and may have simply agreed to "take a break" knowing that they were never coming back anyway. Just my speculation and I may be 100% wrong.
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Post by wombat on Mar 20, 2017 15:53:42 GMT
I've never bought that argument. When ABBA rested, they couldn't have known if or when they'd get back together, and had they got back together and made a new album in, say, 1984, would these two old tracks have fitted in? They might have had to be re-worked to fit the direction Björn and Benny were heading in at that point. Surely a new album would have had to be completely new? It doesn't make much sense to deliberately keep two songs back. .... Every album or group of tracks that I played on in the past, there were always tracks that were "held back for the next album" or some other reason. In Abbas case, nothing they ever did followed rock band 101 logic; certainly your argument confirms that. Its possible JLT was completed and held back for who knows whatever reason - its also possible it was not considered finished, and therefore not released.
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Post by wombat on Mar 13, 2017 20:46:03 GMT
It doesnt matter what they said, or whether something in somebody else's opinion, fits or does not fit.
In the disagreement to release or not to release, the only opinion that matters, is Bjorn and Benny, who clearly hear this music in a way that no one else can comprehend.
That may make their decisions and statements difficult to understand, but, that's the reality of it.
These forum discussions come up all the time, but the end result is always the same. They have their reasons for keeping whatever music in their vault, and it doesnt matter who doesnt understands them or disagrees.
You arent going to get this vault stuff until they change their mind, and it seems like a lot of anguish for no reason. Again, take a stress-free approach. Just enjoy the bootlegs for what they are.
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Post by wombat on Mar 13, 2017 20:09:43 GMT
I agree but I can't help but sometimes I really don't get their reasons. Take "Just Like That" - Benny says that the main reason for not releasing it is that they don't think the verses and chorus work together... yet just a year before he didn't have a problem releasing Should I Laugh Or Cry, which has the most incompatible verses and chorus I have ever heard. Theres no way to understand what they think. They were there for every single minute of that music's creation, and you were not. So they listen and view these songs in a completely different way that you do. This leaves you, and all the other collectors foaming at the mouth to get these vault things, with two choices: continue to complain about it on Abba forums, to no avail; or, accept it, be happy with what music they already gave you, and enjoy the bootlegs for what they are.
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Post by wombat on Mar 13, 2017 14:37:23 GMT
not exactly a cover... but I prefer the VanHalen-Abba mash-up of Super Trouper called Super Jumper...
and I dislike Abba's Gimme Gimme Gimme, but the mash-up with ZZ Top's Gimme All Your Lovin is pretty good.
I've heard some heavy metal covers from the swedish bands that are entertaining. Better? I dont know, so different that its hard to compare.
I've not heard a straight cover that was "better". A few were quite good, and the singers were excellent, and so in that regard, the performance was probably as good as Abba's. "Better"? probably not
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Post by wombat on Mar 13, 2017 13:26:15 GMT
again, it doesnt matter what I or you consider "finished". It only matters what Bjorn and Benny think. If they consider it unfinished, or are unhappy with it for not meeting whatever standards they have for their work...
then you arent going to get it in full finished commercial quality resolution. Not anytime soon.
To you collectors, I'm sorry for your frustration, but, enjoy the bootlegs. Thats going to have to suffice for now.
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Post by wombat on Mar 12, 2017 19:02:06 GMT
I guess then in terms of this particular discussion, the songs in question are the ones being performed in the presentation in London.
I dont think an Abba song is "finished" unless Bjorn and Benny say it is.
Which may explain why songs in question were never released. Perhaps Bjorn and Benny did not consider them finished.
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Post by wombat on Mar 11, 2017 14:15:10 GMT
Because you made the point that hardly anybody would be interested in such a release to begin with. in the first place, I never said only a few people would be interested, it was me who WONDERED how many people would be interested, so please stop putting words in my mouth. and based on the fact that Live at Wembley only sold 85000, for Abba, thats not exactly stratospheric numbers. But that could be for all kinds of reasons. No new material, maybe people dont like live albums, maybe people dont buy CDs anymore. Who knows what would happen if a completed Abba song, finished, mixed, perhaps Just Like That, was released to the public or even as a single. It might hit number one or it might flop, nobody knows. But thats NOT what the discussion here is. Its about unfinished demos and the interest in something like that, NOT finished fully realized songs. I dont know, but I'm wondering that the interest in unfinished demos might not be that great of demand. Maybe.
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Post by wombat on Mar 11, 2017 0:54:34 GMT
which is fine withe them I guess... fewer people to disappoint by not ever releasing it!
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Post by wombat on Mar 10, 2017 21:53:22 GMT
They obviously DO care, because they have never released any of it. And apparently they are not going to.
My point was, why release it to a small number of CDs, when they know its immediately gonna go world wide via the internet?
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Post by wombat on Mar 10, 2017 21:50:40 GMT
bearded ladies make the best keyboard players, indeed.
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Post by wombat on Mar 10, 2017 21:14:22 GMT
who's the hot chick on the left? oh nevermind
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Post by wombat on Mar 8, 2017 22:40:20 GMT
But that is exactly the thing. Since it is just us. Press 1000 CDs with the songs and sell them via monomusic.com right and then watch them mysteriously pop up on bit torrent sites and youtube and everywhere else all over the world it'll be Diego all over again not going to happen
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Post by wombat on Mar 3, 2017 21:52:47 GMT
^^ Well, to be honest, I was a bit disappointed by the sound quality at first too but somehow I got used to it. Maybe that's really how it sounded back then and it's a raw mix with no overdubbing or any other improvement. Another aspect to get used to was Agnetha's vocals on certain songs. But after listening to it a few times I really like the album. I hope that we will get the 1977 tour as well. I've heard a few amateur recordings and it sounds like ABBA were in a better form than two years later... They promised "no overdubbing or other improvement" but I'm not sure I believe that. They later admitted they had to fix the drum recordings because a mic didnt work, so, they used a recording of that drum mic from a different night. I could be way wrong, but I think that might be the reason the drum sound is so drowned in fake reverb... it covers up the problems caused by a recording stripped in from another source. I dont know if they overdubbed anything, unless they had done overdubbing in 1979. They say its all from one night. It could be. The whole affair is so suspiciously drowned in delay and reverb, it makes me wonder. Or maybe its all from one night and thats really the way it sounded. Or maybe thats what happens when you have such a huge band and try to make a decent recording.... I dunno. For whatever reason, it doesnt sound good to me. Its muddy, overly reverbed, and not clear.
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Post by wombat on Mar 2, 2017 17:46:00 GMT
^^ ABBA Live at Wembley failed to meet expectations? What do you mean? For me it is by far the best ABBA-related release of 2014... But I can understand that for ordinary ABBA Gold owners it's probably not that interesting. And you're right... A CD with just demos on it is highly unlikely. If Universal was given a chance to release such a material, I suppose it would be a part of another career retrospective compilation in the vein of the Thank You For The Music box set. To be honest, I wouldn't mind. I learned from EMI that it could be worse... Roxette used to release compilation after compilation of the same old hits with additional two new songs that you couldn't get anywhere else... The sound was awful. Especially the drums, which seemed to have liberal amounts of fake digital reverb puked all over them. A dense, murky mix. I dont know, maybe that was true and accurate, maybe that's how it really sounded at the venue, at the time. I thought it was pretty bad... from Abba, I expected a lot better in terms of sound. Then there were the sales numbers. I dont know what everybody else expected.. but I guess I would have thought Abba was more popular than 85000. Maybe thats really impressive in today's era of single song downloads. And I've talked to several other big fans who frankly just didnt like the album, for whatever reasons. My car stereo seemed to hate it... the CD got stuck in there and now I cant get it out ;-) Hey, cant please everybody you know.
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Post by wombat on Mar 1, 2017 18:10:42 GMT
I've read somewhere that the worldwide sales were around 85000 copies. I must admit I was shocked at first - so few? But it seems it's enough for Universal otherwise they wouldn't bother releasing anything else. Maybe with decreasing sales of CDs generally it is quite good? Who knows how much e.g. Madonna is selling these days? But I guess the demand for the unreleased stuff or rarities is low at the general public and another reissue of ABBA Gold might sell more than a compilation of demos... Nevertheless I'm quite sure Universal would release it if they were allowed so it's certainly not about money. 85000 for a live album that, in my opinion, failed to meet expectations... doesnt surprise me, and like you said, sales of CDs in general, seems to be down all over the place. Abba isnt the hot ticket they once were. I wonder how many people say they LOVE them yet only have Abba Gold. It is a really great album, if thats the only one you have. Lots of great stuff on it. Because of all this, I wonder if Universal would actually release a bunch of unfinished or nearly finished or in whatever state of recently unearthed Abba songs, on a CD by themselves. I suppose they would, but part of me wonders if they would try and tie it into yet another release of Gold or something like that. New Abba Gold Double-Disc deluxe with bonus CD of rarities! Get yours now while we beat that dead horse ONE MORE TIME BABY!!!!
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Post by wombat on Mar 1, 2017 15:38:51 GMT
What kind of excitement do you expect from being a fan of a band that split up 35 years ago? That's been my question all along. How much outcry really, is there for these unreleased tidbits? Is it just a handful of fans on a forum... or are there really large numbers of people asking for it all the time? How were the sales for the recent Wembley Live album? Did it sell like hotcakes, off the charts... or was it merely "respectable"?
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