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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 12:44:14 GMT
I was watching a programme the other day about how to have a number one and someone on there said that Agnetha and Frida’s singing was “so accurate, more accurate than anything on the planet!” or similar. I felt so proud of them LOL! and I remember thinking that this was pretty much one of the main reasons I love ABBA, I never can quite understand people preferring anything other than perfect vocals, but I also think their skill certainly doesn’t take away from the emotional punch they bring to the songs either. I would love to see a TV programme made that could look into the singing abilities/qualities/strengths etc from a more ‘technical’ point of view. Also, is anyone aware of any comments out there publicly made by song writers/voice coaches etc commenting on Agnetha’s and Frida’s singing skills and also from composers where Agnetha and Frida have sung their songs? I’m sure I read somewhere that John Cameron had commented that Agnetha’s version of “If I Thought You’d Ever Change Your Mind” was as he always imagined it to be sung. Any discussions, quite frankly, on A & A’s vocals has me fascinated, especially from those more technical than myself (which wouldn’t be difficult)! Those 2 ladies singing together is like nothing else I’ve ever heard. So, any comments on their abilities would be greatly welcomed!!! And I’ve never understood these Top 100 Vocalist lists - I know it’s a matter of personal taste generally, and who is flavour of the month sometimes! but would love to see a list from a vocal coach!! I'm sure Agnetha and Frida would make the Top 10!
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Post by Michal on Jul 29, 2019 14:41:23 GMT
I guess you don't count Björn and Benny's praise for them, do you? :-) There's been plenty, even if Benny suggested that Karin Glenmark was better than both of them at one point, which I've never understood really. Maybe she has a wider range but there's much more emotion in Agnetha's and Frida's vocals IMO. Actually, that's always been their greatest merit, I guess, especially in Agnetha's case, as the quality of her performances were a bit unstable especially when singing live. Maybe it has something to do with her stage fright and frequent indispositions but I've heard some really poor vocal performances from her. That's the reason I'm not so sure she would make the Top 10 in the list of all-time greatest singers. But there's a certain magic to her voice that is hard to resist indeed. What I always wanted to know was how wide her vocal range was. Frida's is said to be more than 3 octaves but I haven't been able to find out about Agnetha's anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 15:19:47 GMT
I should count Bjorn and Benny's praise I guess LOL!
I've never been a particular fan of live performances, of any music artists, they are so reliant on a lot of things, as you say - stage fright, as well as health etc etc. Agnetha herself has admitted the studio is her favourite place. It must be such a thrill being able to create such, what I consider anyway, masterpieces and hear a song for the first time once it has been completed.
I read somewhere about Agnetha adding the "sparkle/brightness" and Frida the "smoothness and depth" to the ABBA sound. I think that's quite true. Vocal chemistry like no other IMHO.
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Post by josef on Jul 29, 2019 15:51:53 GMT
A topic I could really get enthusiastic about! This is right up my street. I'll be back shortly to add a few comments and even a link.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 16:35:07 GMT
I concur that this a very interesting issue to raise discussions from. Agnetha and Frida's vocal abilities are in a league of their own. Neither one or the other over expressed their singing techniques in the way that Celine Dion, Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey did. A & F should be up there in the music echelons rubbing shoulders with the likes of Beyonce, Rihanna and Adele. Madonna is way over-rated and is not a great singer in my opinion. The way A & F interpreted their feelings into each song is uniquely mindblowing. Without them ABBA would not have existed. A television programme on this subject would indeed be fascinating. Thank you very much, Josef, for bringing this to attention.
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Post by josef on Jul 29, 2019 16:52:19 GMT
This was from a tv show a few months ago about Scandanavian pop. I forget who this woman is (but she's clearly knowledgeable).
As an aside, if anyone wants to know how to pronounce Agnetha and Anni-Frid's names, she does a perfect job.
So, do you agree? Frida's voice as 'thickener'. A bit like adding cornflour to a recipe for sauce? Of course it is so much more than that but I'm inclined to agree. Frida's voice added warmth and depth and we all can agree Agnetha has that certain 'sparkle'. Together, they were unbeatable.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 17:13:04 GMT
Josef, I wholeheartedly agree with you even if Agnetha is my favourite. The pure alchemy of Frida and Agnetha's voices is heavenly. The clever way they enunciated every word so clearly with just a hint of Swedishness is uncanny. Is there such a word as Swedishness ? Probably not, I am getting carried away here !
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 20:01:20 GMT
You can certainly hear how much work went in to the vocals in the studio and it totally paid off. I was trying to find a comment that cher made about how complex the songs are and how high the girls sing. Does anyone know what octave range A & A have?
With regard to emotional input, take for example TWTIA, classic heart wrenching vocal, but in one of those so called tribute shows, some boy band sang it and the lead singer was smiling and the audience was clapping along!! Really. Ruined! Who actually likes this kind of so called tribute shows!!?
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Post by richard on Jul 29, 2019 20:09:02 GMT
This topic is just up my street, too! Couldn't agree more with many of the comments here. In my first post on this forum, I quoted from a book because it expresses perfectly how I feel about the singing of Agnetha and Frida. Here's the quote again:
The girls' casual unison read-through of the incomplete Hamlet III was enough to send shivers up the spine. At their least rehearsed and most exposed, the blending of the two voices is magical. With no technical interference by Benny and Bjorn, this is true testament to a one-off vocal phenomenon - Christopher Patrick, ABBA: Let the Music Speak
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Post by josef on Jul 29, 2019 20:17:57 GMT
As far as I'm aware, and I'm no expert, Dancing Queen has a two or maybe three octave range, which is pretty remarkable for a pop song. There are YouTube videos which have examples of the notes Agnetha and Frida hit. I'll try to fish them out.
As for The Winner Takes It All, there's no doubt in my mind that Agnetha's performace is spot-on and totally appropriate for the song and subject matter. I think it's our friend orf who's not so keen but we agree to disagree. Part of the argument is that perhaps a singer shouldn't 'sing out' so much?, perhaps leave room for the listener to read the emotion for themselves (or words to that effect, don't mean to misquote but I can't find the exact words used). My problem with that, and I am a fan of the restrained approach, is that if this were the case then any old person on the street could just read the lyrics or sing it flat and feel safe knowing the listener can do the rest. This is flawed logic, in my opinion. Why be a singer in the first place if you can't impart emotion, with all its highs and lows?! That's the whole POINT of singing, surely? The beauty of TWTIA is that Agnetha does indeed show restraint. She's really tentative at times and at others, she bares all. This is the job of singer, of a true artist. I can do without Mariah or Celine (despite their obvious talent) - these are proper representations of singers sometimes "over-egging" the pudding. I don't think Agnetha or Frida can truly (or fairly) be accused of doing this.
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Post by josef on Jul 29, 2019 20:30:46 GMT
And one more thing. I seem to recall Agnetha didn't want to let her emotions take over while performing TWTIA? She knew she had to 'perform' it, like an acting job, to impart emotion but not to lose control. I'm not sure how true it is, but I may have read something along the lines of, "I didn't want to capsize the melody". Now, I have no idea what that even means or if I've made it up in my mind but it is indeed there in my mind. I wonder if anyone else recalls this or is it just something I've confused with something else.
On the subject of vocal abilities, Like An Angel Passing Through My Room almost brought me to tears earlier. I'm not sure why, perhaps I'm just rather sensitive right now. Anyway, I love the song and think Frida took the right approach. That long note she does...I can't see anything wrong with it but I recall at the time, all those years ago!- a friend, also an ABBA fan, said to me that he didn't feel she managed it correctly. I was gobsmacked. I didn't know how to answer him, tbh. To my ears, it was perfect.
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Post by Zeebee on Jul 29, 2019 21:05:56 GMT
I guess you don't count Björn and Benny's praise for them, do you? :-) There's been plenty, even if Benny suggested that Karin Glenmark was better than both of them at one point, which I've never understood really. Maybe she has a wider range but there's much more emotion in Agnetha's and Frida's vocals IMO. I totally agree. And I agree with Edmund (edmfio76) about Whitney Houston. I have never cared for her version of I Will Always Love You. She sounds more like she is yelling than singing.
I should find a link to Frida's Swedish verson of The Sound Of Silence. I don't like some of the music in it, but Frida's singing is excellent.
Edit: here it is
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Post by HOMETIME on Jul 29, 2019 22:24:04 GMT
What amazes me about their singing is how precise they were together. They hit the syllables perfectly, no stuttering consonants at the ends of words. They even seem breathe at the same time. Nowadays, there's a "plug in" you can use when recording vocals to create that, but these women did it on demand, repeatedly, when no such tools were available.
The two voices really expanded what ABBA could present. The two different soloists made that Magical Third Voice, which really seems to be an enduring anchor in the trademark ABBA sound. The soprano/mezzo differences aside, there were important tonal and stylistic differences too. They seem to have a "library" of vocal approaches that affected how songs could be approached. Agnetha's plaintive tone was countered by the lovely zestiness in her harder vocals. I think I've Been Waiting For You and My Love, My Life and One Of Us epitomise the former and the verses on As Good As New and Lay All Your Love On Me showcase the latter.
Frida might be a tad more versatile - or maybe it has something to do with the diversity of the kinds of leads she was assigned. Line up Gonna Sing You My Lovesong and Money, Money, Money and The Visitors and Me And I... You could be forgiven for not realising that they're all by the same singer. On GSYMLS, she uses that elegantly soulful style that was front and centre on her first solo album. The vibrato is barely used, and there's a velvety softness to her tone. MMM harnesses her lower range without losing warmth. And then there's that rich throaty sound that she employs in the verses of Knowing Me, Knowing You. This one really gets me. In just a few words, she sets the tone for the entire song ahead. It's a tale of sadness, but there are NO histrionics. Actually, that's true of both women: while Agnetha is more likely to openly emote, she doesn't do any Mariah/Celine egotistical showboating. With both Agnetha and Frida, the needs of the song take precedence.
I agree with the other observations about live performances. I can only think of one singer whose live vocals I enjoy as much as the recordings - and that's Eddi Reader. Agnetha's problems with pitch and Frida's tendency to lean on her vibrato make live ABBA recordings less attractive for me. Then again, Frida's live version of Barnen Sover is the definitive version for me, so there are always exceptions. I agree with Gary about En Ton Av Tystnad - the piano is horrible on it but the vocal is lovely.
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Post by gary on Jul 29, 2019 22:56:43 GMT
I guess you don't count Björn and Benny's praise for them, do you? :-) There's been plenty, even if Benny suggested that Karin Glenmark was better than both of them at one point, which I've never understood really. Maybe she has a wider range but there's much more emotion in Agnetha's and Frida's vocals IMO. I totally agree. And I agree with Edmund (edmfio76) about Whitney Houston. I have never cared for her version of I Will Always Love You. She sounds more like she is yelling than singing.
I should find a link to Frida's Swedish verson of The Sound Of Silence. I don't like some of the music in it, but Frida's singing is excellent.
Edit: here it is
Dolly Parton’s original version of I Will Always Love You is quite beautiful. Whitney Houston’s version is overblown.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 7:20:48 GMT
Totally agree with your comments regarding Agnetha's vocals on TWTIA Josef, spot on. And I love Frida on Knowing Me Knowing You. But singing together, WOW! vocal alchemy indeed. Christopher Patrick was spot on regarding his comments on Hamlet III Richard - just sublime. By the way, off subject here, did any radio stations play What About Livingstone during the moon landing commemorations?!! it briefly mentions flying to the moon! I love that song!!
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Post by richard on Jul 30, 2019 10:33:16 GMT
Regarding Agnetha and Frida's respective vocal ranges, you'd think it would be easy enough to find out on Google, wouldn't you? An objective, factual, cooly indifferent tabulation of ther highest (non-falsetto) and lowest notes that they recorded in ABBA? But no such luck. Instead, you get the usual, tiresome, 'Agnetha vs Frida' crap in its various permutations - anathema to true ABBA fans. If it hasn't been done already, I'm surprised, but I'm sure someone with sufficient time and patience could provide the information. Starting with the girls' lowest notes, I'm guessing MMM would reveal that for Frida, and for Agnetha, it's possibly in the verses of Lovelight, the lower part, where, I think, she's harmonising with herself. As for their respective, non-falsetto, highest notes, I haven't a clue!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 11:24:54 GMT
Benny and Bjorn were clever to ascertain which songs were suited for Agnetha and which for Frida. " As Good As New ", " My Love My Life ", " I've Been Waiting For You ", " The Winner Takes It All ", " One Of Us ", " Slipping Through My Fingers " and " SOS " really portrayed Agnetha as the queen of devastating heartbreak. Meanwhile, " Gonna Sing You My Lovesong ", " One Man One Woman ", " Knowing Me Knowing You ", " Our Last Summer ", " When All Is Said And Done " and " Andante Andante " epitomised Frida as the queen of sad yet more resolute power ballads. Only Agnetha and Frida truly deliverered these classic songs. Any cover version may just as well be thrown out the window ! Josef, I am with you all the way in respect of your views. I, too, could elaborate to my heart's content on A & F's vocal abilities.
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Post by Michal on Jul 30, 2019 12:19:11 GMT
As for their respective, non-falsetto, highest notes, I haven't a clue! Agnetha's highest ever chest-voice note is known - it is the belted note in the bridge of Hole In Your Soul and if I'm not mistaken, it is said to be B5 (someone with perfect pitch here could confirm it). Frida's highest ever note (reached with her head voice though) is heard in En Ledig Dag and I think it should be somewhere in the sixth octave (E6??). However, it's impossible to find about about Agnetha head-voice notes (they must be really high if she is able to belt out B5)...
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Post by richard on Jul 30, 2019 13:24:30 GMT
Edmund, you make a subtle distinction between types of sad, and I'm not sure it works for me. I happen to think Agnetha and Frida were both good enough singers to have sung each others' solo/lead sections convincingly, and we as listeners, after the fact, would probably still be saying 'Benny and Bjorn got it right'! So for me, despite their different tonal characteristics, Agnetha and Frida were equally versatile singers, not limited in the moods and emotions they could express - whatever the nature of the song. That's my feeling, anyway.
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Post by josef on Jul 30, 2019 14:35:27 GMT
Found this. I'm not sure how useful it will be? I'm not very technically minded so I haven't really got a clue what an F sharp or a B flat is! I only know what I hear and go on gut instinct.
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Post by josef on Jul 30, 2019 14:37:58 GMT
I found this, too. I'm trying to find an equivalent for Frida but it's proving difficult.
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Post by josef on Jul 30, 2019 14:58:51 GMT
I do hope this doesn't turn into a Frida v Agnetha thing. Perusing YouTube, I spotted a few morons trying to do just that. It's so stupid. There's no question of BOTH of their talent. Of course we can say things like maybe Frida had more 'control' of her voice. Agnetha would probably agree! Especially live; I think nerves got the better of Agnetha on stage and she could have pitch problems....SOMETIMES. Whereas Frida was at home and was way more confident. That isn't to say that after Agnetha didn't relax and warm up she didn't shine.
Heck, you only have to look at the Gary Barlow/Agnetha meeting to witness Agnetha stating that singing live/performing on stage wasn't her strong point. She was more at home in the studio and there's nothing wrong with that. It does not detract from her abilities. And they both helped one another out onstage if one was having an off day.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 15:25:29 GMT
I wholeheartedly agree with you Josef, these Frida vs Agnetha debates are ridiculous and really irritate me - both were crucial to ABBA in equal measure, without either one, the wonderful ABBA vocal sound would simply not exist. What is it about society that makes people create such arguments!? Thank you for all your posts on this topic everyone, only my second time posting a topic and I was a bit nervous LOL!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 17:39:45 GMT
Sorry, Richard I hope I didn't offend you with my views. What I was trying to convey is that both ladies were very talented singers. From a story telling point of view, Frida still had a chance of working things out whereas the game was over for Agnetha in terms of the songs they performed. For reference, read Carl Magnus Palm's comments within the book "ABBA The Complete Recording Sessions". I'm not that brilliant at explaining my ideas. I, also, hope that this discussion doesn't turn into a debate.
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Post by richard on Jul 30, 2019 17:54:03 GMT
Not at all, Edmund, yours is a perfectly valid view, and I bet it is shared by most ABBA fans! And the results speak for themseves.
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Post by shoshin on Jul 30, 2019 22:36:43 GMT
As for their respective, non-falsetto, highest notes, I haven't a clue! Agnetha's highest ever chest-voice note is known - it is the belted note in the bridge of Hole In Your Soul and if I'm not mistaken, it is said to be B5 (someone with perfect pitch here could confirm it). Frida's highest ever note (reached with her head voice though) is heard in En Ledig Dag and I think it should be somewhere in the sixth octave (E6??). However, it's impossible to find about about Agnetha head-voice notes (they must be really high if she is able to belt out B5)... Yes, Agnetha belts a B5 in HIYS. She is in a select group of singers who can pull this off live, see video below (Agnetha is at 3m8s). Within this list, a lot of them warble and improvise their way up towards a brief and suspiciously shrieked or squeaked B5, whereas Agnetha is hitting a specific and sustained note in the song's melody (glissing up an octave). This would explain why the uploader places Agnetha fifth out of the twenty five examples.
Frida reaches Eb6 in En Ledig Dag. Not really head voice though, it's whistle register (doesn't mean she is whistling, it's more like yawning ) Amazing control. I have set the video below to start at the lead-up to the Eb6.
I've never found an example of Agnetha resorting to head voice in order to hit a high note, at least not in a lead line (maybe a harmony somewhere). In My Love, My Life, I would call her 'still my one and on-ly' head voice. However, this wasn't because it's beyond her belted range.
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Post by shoshin on Jul 30, 2019 23:07:46 GMT
...I read somewhere about Agnetha adding the "sparkle/brightness" and Frida the "smoothness and depth" to the ABBA sound. I think that's quite true. Vocal chemistry like no other IMHO. ABBA's studio engineer Michael Tretow talks about this in the video below. I have set it to start at the relevant point. Worth listening beyond Bjorn's subsequent comments, because there is an almost acapella excerpt from DQ, showcasing some of the interesting harmony lines as well as the leads.
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Post by Michal on Jul 31, 2019 6:16:00 GMT
Finally someone really knowledgeable in this thread! I've been waiting for you, shoshin (no offense everybody else, but Martin seems to be an expert in this field Thank you for confirming the notes. By the way, what do you think about the "range videos" posted by josef ? I've seen them before but there are some "suspicious" notes (as you call it) on both ends of the spectrum, aren't there?
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Post by richard on Jul 31, 2019 9:49:20 GMT
Interesting information from Michal and Martin about the girls' highest notes. Now if only someone could give us their respective lowest notes, we'd know Agnetha and Frida's vocal ranges. Not that it adversely affects our appreciation of them as singers, of course, but it's intriguing to know just the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 16:21:35 GMT
Welcome Alib, to the forum. Your points are very interesting and I agree with you. We have talked about the songs where Agnetha and Frida were chosen lead vocalists, a subject I guess we could all elaborate on and raise even more interesting views. What about some of the ABBA songs where A&F were joint vocalists ? You can hear the alchemy of both the heavenly voices within such numbers as " That's Me ", " If It Wasn't For The Nights ", " Bang-A-Boomerang ", " I Do I Do I Do I Do I Do ", " Mamma Mia " and " Dancing Queen " of course. Then the unique blend of their voices can, also, be heard in the choruses to " When I Kissed The Teacher ", " Take A Chance On Me " and " Kisses Of Fire ". " The Name Of The Game " is a fine example of classic Agnetha and Frida as joint vocalists with separate leads.
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