ABBA Voyage: General Discussion 2019

I fully intend boycotting the songs when they come out. I will stuff cotton wool in my ears to muffle any inadvertent snippets of the song I might be subjected to. I will wear sunglasses at all time to minimise the risk of seeing so much as a glimpse of the ABBAtars.

I encourage all ABBA fans to do the same until the fuss dies down.

I don't think that any fans seriously deny ABBA's right to decide what to do about their music and the MM thingy. However, these are public projects and so we all are free to express when we think they do a mistake about MM or the new songs. As we can't stop them anyway that's far from what you describe.

I am not now, nor would I ever say, that BennyBjörn haven't got the right to do exactly as they want. That's not the point at all. My view is simply that I think the Mamma Mia films are terribly written and directed and do the music a disservice. The second film was atrocious! Laughably so. It was basically the first film all over again with flimsy, ridiculous leaps and so many stupid suspensions of disbelief that even I couldn't manage it. People enjoy them and say so freely- fine, I'm happy for you. It's still not going to make me think they're any good. Besides, my opinion means nothing- they're all laughing all to the bank. I actually like things that are so bad they're good (in a knowing way) but these films aren't even that. I couldn't care less what they achieve monetarily or who likes or dislikes them. I just think they're a pile of meaningless rubbish with no real pathos whatsoever- just the worst kind of cheese. They're an insult to films with real emotion and depth. That's just my view, nothing more, nothing less. I'm criticising the actual films, not ABBA's music or the members.

Incidentally, I won't seriously boycott the songs. That was just a joke to lighten the mood, as Graham spotted.

As an artist, if you parade what you do in public, and make it a product and ask money for it, people get to judge its quality and usefulness. Organise for a behind-closed-doors private performance of a musical based on songs you've written if you want to see one badly enough, but don't want to risk hearing people question the wisdom of the idea, and the quality of the outcome. Don't make a cash-in. In terms of everyone else: the problem with the sort of respect-every-weed-for-being-a-plant attitude you allude to is that, taken far enough, it serves to discourage and shut down meaningful (read: interesting) discussion and debate (the prospect of meeting so that you can all agree, in so many different words, that the weather's nice isn't a thrilling one for some), and, if practised on the 'net in particular, undermines one of the best things to come out of online socialisation. As long as people aren't personally abusive, and are prepared to think about and try and articulate why they feel the way they do about something if asked - be constructively but flexibly critical - then disagreements and differences of opinion are not only fine, they're desirable and necessary.

I don't have an in-depth knowledge of Mamma Mia and its permutations, but have been exposed to enough to know, that at base it's a trite, kitsch, parasitical exercise in 'feel good' cynicism, and it would be impossible for this fan of ABBA's music to sit through the show or films from beginning to end. That all said, I don't hold ABBA especially responsible for the monster that has become Mamma Mia (although someone by now ought be thinking about applying a shepherd's crook to Bjorn's neck!), since as far as I can tell they weren't the principle driving force behind it; they authorised it and are the 'glue' at the top. Personally, I think they should've seen what was coming and said 'No' to all of it (being more than wealthy enough for it not to matter), but ultimately they're not directly responsible for Julie Walters hamming it up, or Stellan Skarsgard's horrible singing (if he does sing, as I've indicated, I've never seen either film in toto). At the end of the day the film renditions of the songs are just more cover versions, with an extra coating of 'yuck.' Saying the Mamma Mia phenomenon is execrable, and wondering if it won't have a damaging effect on ABBA's artistic legacy in the long run, isn't criticising the band or its music, it's criticising the service they and it have been put to.

Perhaps I look at it all rather simplistically, rather than look to deep.
of course we are all entitled to our opinions and thoughts, however for my pennies worth..here goes...
MM 1.. was ok, I actually enjoyed it for what it was , a simple (very) story around ABBA songs a natural follow on from the stage version, which ironically hasn’t been that slated on here from what I can remember. A very successful stage production which like it or not has kept ABBA in the spotlight. ( not that I think they would have faded, but that light is a little brighter than it could’ve been ) .
Regardless , the film was a huge success. ( at this point I must say I’m not a lover of ABBA covers), the film does make you cringe and smile , so not all bad.
MM2.. was a film of necessity for the film industry, a cash cow really. It isn’t as “good” as the first, as said the first part pretty mundane, however it does improve when Cher makes her appearance .. that all said I’ve only ever seen it once, which must say something.
It capitalises on what is already there..
The Party.. it’s down to individuals, a fun night out ? It’s going to attract the MM generation more than the fans. Yes expensive but what harm does it really do... we all need a bit of fun in our lives.. Would I say no if somebody bought me a ticket...

So far we have.. ABBA, then Mamma Mia  stage, then MM1 , then MM2 now the party.. a 37 year progression or regression in some people’s eyes..lol. For what ever feelings we may have, all have to a point kept the public interest alive and interested, I’m not talking about “ us” the fans, for we may have different reasons for still being here.. talking , discussing, arguing... but a whole new generation who weren’t even born in 1982. Not many artists have the capacity to attract like ABBA have.. a handful? 
So overall like or not the metamorphosis of ABBA, it has happened and it’s like the saying you can’t hear what you’ve heard or not  see what you have already seen.. it’s there, so we live ( to a point ) with all of it.
Theres not much time left, being realistic, the last roll of the dice as ABBA I expect, before they shuffle off this mortal coil, so enjoy what we have left.. 

I try to put it all into perspective and down to my own choice of entertainment...which ironically is the real thing...
Hey it’s good to debate, rather than argue, and being human.. we don’t have to agree, where’s the fun in that....

I'll rejoice when the songs are finally bloody released. If they ever are.

Regarding the Mamma Mia! thing. My niece is into it. But I honestly don't think she really knows who ABBA are. I'm not joking. She has some vague idea but for her it's about the films and those covers. She truly has no conception of the real songs behind it all and the work and artistry that went into the albums and so on. THIS is what makes me sad. I'm sure she's not the only one. Yeah, she's young so it's not her fault but there's no doubt in my mind that she'll grow up with fond, 'fun' memories of Mamma Mia! and just a vague notion of the four Swedes that inspired it all.

Ah well, never mind. C'est la vie.

^That's exactly how I feel but struggle to express.

I wonder if anyone in ABBA actually realises how tacky the whole Mamma Mia! malarkey is? Or do they all think it's tickety-boo? Perhaps they were star struck by the likes of Meryl Streep and were blinded to the truth. ONE of them must surely have seen the films and thought to themselves how dreadful it all is whilst grinning through clenched teeth. They're all so diplomatic and careful with their words. Everything will be "fantastic" to Agnetha and words like "wonderful" thrown around.

I'd love it if one of them came out and said they found it "appalling" or something. I'd laugh my head off. Of course that won't happen.

I still hold out hope that beyond these two new singles and the ABBAtar-tour that the music will one day be used in a film that truly sets the world alight and touches people in a real and not cringey way.

I actually really enjoyed " Mamma Mia " the stage show but alas was very disappointed when I went to see the movie " Mamma Mia ". I thought Julie Walters was quite funny but that is about all. ABBA's songs lose their sparkle when somebody else rather than ABBA perform them. They don't move or touch me as ABBA do. As for the sequel I drew the line there and said " No more " and haven't seen it or have any desire to. With " Mamma Mia - The Party " well I have been a little too harsh on Bjorn but still think it is all a little too much now. I wouldn't pay £153 to attend. I would rather visit The Museum in Sweden or The Exhibition in London. I earnestly hope that a new album will possibly bear fruition. I would very much like to hear " ABBA 2020 ". They definitely still have that magical touch.

Good points. Part of me feels that, without Mamma Mia!, the chart trajectory of Gold would have ended in the late 1990s. The occasional TV documentary might have bobbed it briefly back into the Top 75, but I think that would probably have been all. The continued success of the Mamma Mia! franchise and Gold is why the ABBAtars thing was considered viable. I honestly don't think we'd be getting new material now if it weren't for that phenomenon and the desire to further cash in on it. 

As much as I think ABBA deserved it, I don't think they'd have received the respectful South Bank Show style feature. Maybe the 30th/40th anniversaries of the bigger albums might have had slightly more impact because they'd have been slightly more novel? Or might have been able to shine without Gold stealing their thunder further up the charts?

Ultimately, I think that in spite of everything, ABBA are still unfairly kept in the Guilty Pleasures box. Without the relentless reminders via Mamma Mia! of how good the songs are, I think ABBA might even have faded back quite some distance. I don't think we'd even have had those awful "ABBA weeks" on the likes of X Factor.

Others will be more sure of the facts, but when ABBA were still a working group, I seem to remember that most of their appearances and specials were broadcast by the BBC. In recent years, though, the ABBA-related programmes mostly seem to have appeared on on ITV or Channel 5, or sometimes Channel 4, probably the upshot of Bjorn and co. granting rights to the highest bidder, which invariably turns out be one of the commercial channels.  In other words, I don't think it's a case of the BBC not liking ABBA, it's more a case of them not being able to afford them anymore.

I had a moment earlier. I was listening to an instrumental version of Mamma Mia and it became apparent to me (once again) how great that song really is. So, SO catchy! The catchiest! And I genuinely feel the original song has been somehow lost/forgotten/sidelined by that dreadful musical. It's sort of disappeared. I don't quite know how to describe it. It's like the musical/films have swallowed it. It's a genuinely great ABBA song which, along with SOS and Fernando, catapulted ABBA into superstardom. But all I ever hear is the title used for the musical and the dire karaoke versions of it. Poor Mamma Mia. It's original beauty and zest has been sacrificed to that abomination. 😥

^Yes, that's what I do to recapture my love for the songs. And I get that the cash cow is here to stay. Oh well.

Channel 5 is dreadful. They pander to the most puerile of topics. Endless tawdry shows about the benefits system, "poverty porn". Shameful.

Ok, I think I've got it. The reason I feel the way I do. Despite charging a shedload of money for this Mamma Mia the party thing, and despite earning gazillions from the musical and two films, I feel BennyBjörn have "sold their soul to the devil" (it's just an expression). They recorded what could be argued as sublime pop then farmed it out to the highest bidder which in turn kinda turned it into a cheap Poundland product. That's my beef with it. Yeah yeah yeah keeping the music alive....Yeah escapism. ..Yeah trying times....feel-good blah blah blah. I say **** to that. (Lol Mike/Zeebee) Bring back some integrity.

However, I concede that if it wasn't for all that we wouldn't be getting the two new songs (and maybe more). But I'm still rather disappointed they ever went along with that ridiculous storyline which has made quite a few people very rich indeed.

HOMETIME,
"You're right Josef, but it's Mamma Mia! that is the "cheap Poundland product."

Im a bit confused here. Yes, that's what I am saying, Tony. Maybe I didn't make that clear? That's what I'm saying. Perhaps it came across that I meant the party thing? No, although that's all tied in. Nope, the "blame" 😆 lies squarely in the lap of Mamma freakin' Mia!

It's funny you should mention the focus coming back to ABBA. That's what I'm hoping for. It really is overdue. The Mamma Mia! thing has gone on long enough. Talk about overkill!