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Post by Michal on Apr 18, 2017 18:07:39 GMT
The problem with The Visitors was that half of the songs were recorded in analogue and the other half in digital and they sounded so different that they had to convert the digital ones into analogue to get the same amount of noise. At least that's what's been said about the matter. Otherwise thanks for explaining! I don't know much about these things but it's very interesting.
P.S. I have some problems with quoting recently... It's impossible to place the reply after the quote.
And Abba ran into the same issue with the Visitors... eventually after recording in all digital, they didnt like the sound and had Tretow convert a bunch of it back into analog. At least I think thats what happened.
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Post by wombat on Apr 18, 2017 18:59:37 GMT
^^ Steve Hoffman is the guy that ABBA audiophile Rudolf Ondrich rates highly. Rudolf is confident that ABBA remastering by Hoffman would be much better than any previous attempts. Kate Bush recorded her 1993 album The Red Shoes digitally, and wasn't happy with the results. She had the album remastered in 2011 by converting it back to analog (there was a way it was done, not sure how). I think all of her subsequent albums have been recorded with DAT and she also mentioned using Pro-Tools. Hoffman knows everything there is to know about mastering. He does work for the big artists, big name acts. He also is quite the historian on all things recording studio, knows all the old LA scene cats, and how everything was done in the 70s. Hoffman remastering just about anything would probably be an improvement. You guys should all descend upon the Hoffman forum and DEMAND that he call up Bjorn and Benny. Haha.
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Post by Fafner on Apr 18, 2017 20:59:00 GMT
It is true that analog has a certain characteristic that CDs or digi does not... its hard to put into words, but warmth or softness are often used. Therefore even a vinyl album cut from a digi master source, will sound differently than a CD cut from the same digi master source. Better? Hard to say. I always believed it's due to a low capacity of a CD? That some parts of the sound are simply missing... And the use of digital media with bigger capacity (DVD or BD) should solve the problem. I thought the digital recording and mastering itself is beneficial because there's no hiss, distortion and the copying is lossless. Even ABBA used digital recorders at the end of their career. Also I've read somewhere that the first CDs sounded bad because they used the masters meant for cutting LPs and the sound characteristics of LP and CD are different - hence all the remastering. What I don't understand is why they remaster the sound for re-releases on vinyl - it should be perfect? To add just a bit more to what wombat already said (he knows about this stuff more than I do): there's no 'lose' of sound with digital, since, at least theoretically, a regular CD (44.1/16) covers the whole range of frequencies that humans can possibly hear (and so in my opinion HD audio is simply an overkill), and it objectively has MUCH more dynamical range than any vinyl (this is especially noticeable with recordings of orchestral music). What does make the difference to the quality of sound is the analogue to digital converter that one uses (either in the process of recording, or remastering an album from tape). As wombat already explained, in the early days of digital, the digital converters used to be pretty crude compared to what you have today, so many of the early cd's sounded bad for this reason, though there are many exceptions. Many of the early digital remasters from the 80's still actually sound really good even in comparison to more recent remasters (as many audiophiles will tell you). Think about digital photography, it's the same principle. A high end camera is going to produce much better results than a cheap camera on a smartphone, even if you have the same number of pixels in both cases. It's all comes down to the quality of your equipment rather than the type of medium which you are using (maybe vinyl or tape does inherently produce better sound than digital, but if there are such differences they are rather subtle - in my judgement, a well recorded digital audio can sound as 'warm' or natural as any analogue recording, hence in my opinion, the recording and mastering process is way more important than the physical medium that one uses).
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Post by shoshin on Apr 18, 2017 21:05:13 GMT
...I have some problems with quoting recently... It's impossible to place the reply after the quote.
You mean it's as if the cursor is stuck within the quote and you can't get outside it? A workaround I use is to switch from the 'Preview' tab to 'BBCode'. Then either continue in that mode (although it does look a bit weird if you're not used to html), or alternatively just reposition the cursor to where you want it before switching back to Preview.
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Post by WATERLOO on Apr 19, 2017 7:01:29 GMT
But there are exceptions, some labels (again classical) pride themselves to have remasters made by remixing the original multitracks (e.g., Mercury living presence, RCA living stereo, Pentatone). That does, however, lead to a slightly different sound, does it? If they did that to ABBA's back catalogue (which B&B surely wouldn't allow), the result would sound slightly different from what we know, especially considering that ABBA had so many things hidden in their mixes that probably hardly anyone would remember whether certain things from the multitrack are actually ver low in the mix or not present at all.
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Post by Fafner on Apr 19, 2017 9:08:51 GMT
But there are exceptions, some labels (again classical) pride themselves to have remasters made by remixing the original multitracks (e.g., Mercury living presence, RCA living stereo, Pentatone). That does, however, lead to a slightly different sound, does it? If they did that to ABBA's back catalogue (which B&B surely wouldn't allow), the result would sound slightly different from what we know, especially considering that ABBA had so many things hidden in their mixes that probably hardly anyone would remember whether certain things from the multitrack are actually ver low in the mix or not present at all. Yes of course, this is where classical and pop/rock differ; in the later but not the former the recording itself is part of the composition as it were. This is why we need Benny himself to remix the albums, because he knows what goes where...
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Post by wombat on Apr 19, 2017 12:28:04 GMT
Yes of course, this is where classical and pop/rock differ; in the later but not the former the recording itself is part of the composition as it were. This is why we need Benny himself to remix the albums, because he knows what goes where... He'd need to proper motivation for that. Roughly speaking, as Paul Stanley once said, and I have no reason to argue - "it takes three times longer to mix than it does record". Benny might get Ludwig to do it.... Benny wouldnt have time. what would be MORE fun, would be a software delivery package where you get a set of Abba songs with all, or most, of the original multi-tracks.. and then you can create your own customized mix. I know, never happen.....
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Post by Fafner on Apr 19, 2017 15:51:56 GMT
what would be MORE fun, would be a software delivery package where you get a set of Abba songs with all, or most, of the original multi-tracks.. and then you can create your own customized mix. Yeah, that could be really cool but nobody does that. You can get multitracks only through bootlegs, no band officially releases such things, am I right?
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Post by wombat on Apr 19, 2017 16:46:17 GMT
Yeah, that could be really cool but nobody does that. You can get multitracks only through bootlegs, no band officially releases such things, am I right? Nobody in their right mind would do that. Thats a bands private intellectual property and they'd be crazy to release that. Can you imagine the horrible re-mixes of their glorious songs suddenly unleashed upon youtube? LOL I've seen a few multi-tracks bootlegged from files cracked open via the Guitar Hero game. Bands were paid big bucks to provide original multi-tracks to the game company for said purpose and it didnt take long for somebody to crack that wide open. Some of these werent the original bands files, they were made for the game, but some were from the bands. But thats it, thats all I've ever seen, at least available on bootleg.
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Post by WATERLOO on Apr 19, 2017 20:23:33 GMT
On the other hand, for fans it's very interesting. Many of Madonna's multitrack have leaked over the years, many only partially but you can catch a great glimpse of what her songs consist of. The multitracks of Hung Up e.g. reveals that the song samples much more from Gimme Gimme Gimme than the flute/string section. The sampling goes throughout the whole song.
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