Voyage, follow-up?

From your lips to Benny's ears, richard!

My own preferences have certainly evolved over the decades. Sometimes the acts I've loved have evolved too. Some got better, some fell by the wayside for me. It's odd, but I had no definable expectations when it came to Voyage. It took me a few plays to get to grips with the first two songs - neither seemed particularly immediate. DSMD and NDAI are about as poppy as we can expect ABBA to get at this stage, without compromising their dignity. But that's pretty good going.

Indeed. Elton “friends with anyone that’s famous enough and will duet with whoever is in at the time” John, and Madonna who looks unrecognisable and thinks she’s down with the kids when actually she’s just embarrassing. Loved Ray of Light but severely let herself down with anything since.

Voyage may have its faults but it’s true to ABBA. No unnecessary collaborations with Ed Sheeran, Dua Lipa or whoever is currently popular, or inserting expletives or your name into songs (“Bitch, I’m Madonna” etc). ABBA really showed them up and proved that they are well above all that.

Back to Voyage. No Doubt About It is clearly a bit marmite. For me it’s part of that awkward bridge between Keep An Eye On Dan and Ode To Freedom where I start to lose interest. If it was a film at the cinema I’d be wondering off to the toilets even if I didn’t necessarily need to go.

Is it? Without the ABBA sample, would it really be anything?

Some of her albums Music and American Life I do like. Confessions On A Dancefloor has its moments (such as Jump) but anything after that she lost me completely.

Ray of Light was to Madonna what Hounds of Love was to Kate Bush. Hard to top. Kate tried and came near (Aerial) but Madonna decided to go off another way. Her last three or four albums are forgettable, cringeworthy efforts and Ray of Light is now a distant memory (25 years anyway).

^

Can’t agree about True Blue being her last good album. Like A Prayer is her best album IMO, and that’s later than True Blue. Indeed, I think it’s her only album that’s good the whole way through.

I suppose I was expecting a new ABBA album after 40 years to be nearer to, or some sort of development from, The Visitors album. However I was ignoring its inevitable relationship to the Voyage show. But in the event of a final album after Voyage, I hope they'd have the desire and confidence to say, indeed, in effect, "This is us now!" (Mind you, that might be because I now regard the Voyage album as less than it could have been.)

Alan - I also think Voyage is quite an average album. When I gave my review on here I gave it 3 and a half stars. Maybe know I would give it 3 stars.

A couple of really good songs - ISHFIY and DSMD and one real stinker LT. The rest are a bit average. I have actually gone off NDAI and OTF, my next favourites a bit too. They seem outakes from Voulez Vous and The Visitors more now. JAN is literally a Voulez Vous reject.The rest I was never greatly enthused about. They are not 'bad' or 'rubbish' just nothing special.

Maybe it would have been better if they just stuck with the first 2 songs and a new compilation to mark 50 years would have been the right home for them. I can see why, for commercial reasons, the need to release a final studio album though.

Albums from Arrival to The Visitors all had at least one duff song on them. Voyage does too. But there are way more fillers than killers on Voyage

Whilst I'm amused by certain less than complimentary comments regarding 'Voyage', I remain in love with the album as a whole. From the first listen to the last (today), I consider it to be astoundingly good - i.e. great.

I concede that "Just A Notion" is less than perfect but it's still joyously wonderful and a great pop moment. Now if they had bothered to write some verses to accompany the chorus and record new vocals, it could have been beyond wondrous. 

The point I wish to make, and it correlates with Hometime's comments above, is that personal tastes generally change as a person matures. I still adore all of the ABBA back catalogue, but I didn't expect, nor want, a facsimile of their 1970's output at this stage of my life.

I truly enjoy the ladies' mature voices/phrasing and Benny's more organic production choices are dignified for the most part (a little over the top during the chorus of "I Still Have Faith In You", a little odd during the verses of "Don't Shut Me Down" and I didn't necessarily require for either "S.O.S." or "Fernando" to be reprised) but the album hangs together as a whole for me because it generally reflects the group members as they are at their current ages. Perhaps a seventy-something woman generally wouldn't give birth and then lament custodial visitations, but we can cut Bjorn a little slack since, in my opinion, the songwriting quality remains intact (with recognition, of course, to Benny's glorious melodies).

With regard to another group album, I definitely am holding out hope. I am curious as to whether work has been undertaken since 2021 and wouldn't be surprised if they have all indeed been toiling away in secrecy. Would I love 'The Visitors' II? Absolutely, but what I really want is emotion, in spades. It was present in the first two singles as well as "I Can Be That Woman" and "Keep An Eye On Dan", but not necessarily elsewhere. I believe Frida is sincere when she sings of her admiration for bumblebees but how great could that track have been if she had been pouring her heart into an actual story of love? She delivers a truly magnificent vocal but it's kind of wasted on, well, bumblebees yet I still consider it to be fantastic overall. (I'm also a fan of the much-maligned "Little Things", regardless of seasonal overtones, but I realise I'm in the minority.) Therefore, yes I am keen on a follow-up to 'Voyage', irrespective of whether it garners attention or sells - I just want them all to let their hair down and create a solid (preferably thematic) album that focusses on the human condition.

People who have read earlier posts of mine might remember that I have never been a great fan of the Voyage album. And despite my hopes of it growing on me, it never has. It’s interesting to see some relatively negative comments from other people creeping into this thread. It seems Voyage may not have the staying power of the heyday albums. (Though I realise that the majority of fans still love it.)

There are weaker songs from the previous five studio albums, although I stick with my opinion that there are no bad tracks on any of those albums (except TFTPOO). It’s a remarkable run of near-perfection, matched by few other artists.

The song that stands out is DSMD: classic Abba. ISHFIY is a good album track but not commercial, as benny said a couple of months ago. The rest of the songs I can do without. Several I even dislike: When you danced, LT, OTF en the worst of them all NDAI. So if this is Abba now I am not longing for a follow up album. They should have stop after the first 2 songs. DSMD should have the lead off single with a proper vid. B side should have been ISHFIY.

"No Doubt About It" is a conundrum for me. On the surface, it's a fairly basic (slightly less than) three-minute pop song with hooks galore, harkening back to that mid-1970's rousing, noisy production - e.g. "So Long".
It would be easy to outright dismiss this track as dross, but I think it warrants more exploration. The standout component is Frida's excellent lead vocal, which is truly dynamic and impressive irrespective of her age. However, what the casual listener may not realise is how fantastic Agentha's harmony vocals are as well. If anyone has heard the isolated mix of this song, Agnetha's backing vocals are pushed up high in the mix and they are absolutely thrilling - quite reminiscent of how she sounded during the 1982 sessions. The sound she creates is so sweet I find it quite irritating that more was not made of this contribution. This is the one track where I think Michael B Tretow is severely missed - I am confident he could have mixed this song to its best advantage, incorporating the superior instrumental elements (keyboards/synthesizers) and the vocal interplay between the ladies. Eradicate the 'rock stomp' and align more with Frida's delicious vocal twists and turns, allowing for a more inviting foray into pop deliciousness. 

"Ode To Freedom" is one of my favourites, but I concede that something isn't quite right. It does indeed feel truncated but at the same time, (the almost) one-minute instrumental introduction seems interminable in the context of a three-and-a-half-minute song. We know that Bernard Löhr advised prior to the release of 'Voyage' that three distinct versions of "Ode To Freedom" were recorded so I wonder if the released version is a hybrid of those other takes, maybe with some degree of compromise into the bargain? I actually adore the quartet vocal with Frida most prominent, but also believe the mix could be a little clearer throughout. That said, I do suspect that the 'murky' mix was quite deliberate for this track as it does offer an evocative quality which is in synch with the lyrics and orchestral arrangement. 

These comments lead me to the overall problem with 'Voyage' (in my opinion), which is that the final mix doesn't quite work. It's a splendid album in many ways but the mix is a little woolly in places, and this is where I question Bernard as a worthy successor to Michael. Perhaps Benny's (and Bjorn's) ears aren't what they used to be and being immersed in the project for the number of years they were, it would have been easy to lose a sense of objectivity, but I do wonder why others on the periphery didn't offer comment? Perhaps they did and were ignored or more likely, the album creation/production was a closed shop with only Benny and Bernard having the final say (I doubt Bjorn had much involvement in this domain). 

I truly think the songs (and performances) are there, but they just need to be revealed in a more sophisticated, nuanced manner. "Don't Shut Me Down" is definitely not my favourite track on the album and I have issues with some of the production choices (e.g. the slightly plodding reggae beat and distorted saxophone) but the chorus is mixed to perfection, with the rich vocal harmonies and swirling strings becoming dominant as the song progresses. Agnetha's lead vocal also sounds pristine and there is an overall 'clean' sounding mix for the duration of the song, which fares better than other tracks from that standpoint. Conversely, "When You Danced With Me" comes off as slightly shrill and "Just A Notion" is muddy... I could go on, but I suspect you get my point.

Richard, to your point of the impetus for a possible final album, I absolutely understand and agree with the distinction you make. 'Voyage' was initially just two singles to promote a show, which morphed into an album over the course of 4-5 years, with the inspirational factor being to ultimately accompany said show. From my perspective, 'Voyage' is a disparate collection of songs that reference their back catalogue, representing most of the group's popular phases. That's no bad thing and as I have already stated, I do adore the album, but it is lacking the cohesiveness of the 'archetypal album', written and produced from the ground up and conceived as a whole piece of work. I long for this to occur and serve as their final chapter. I bet grumpy old Benny secretly wishes for this as well.

This is a fabulous summation of the problem with NDAI in particular and, for the, the album as a whole: Tretow would never have let such a muddy mix hit the listeners' ears. If I've said this before, forgive the repetition, but NDAI was crying out for an acapella intro. Strip everything back from those energetic vocals for I made a mess this time and there's/No doubt about it. A whack of a snare and in comes the rest of the instrumentation. All at once, it places the third voice front and centre. That said, the way those voices are mixed is unexpected. It almost feels "live" - by ABBA's standards, anyway. The blend is not as crisp as it was in, say, Elaine or OAOAO (the track evokes both songs for me), and it feels like the women are not in absolute synch? Great song? Yes. Great central performance? Hell yes. Mixing? Bing-Bong, paging Mr. Tretow...

Much has been made about how well the album has been sequenced too. But the final three songs is where they stumbled, in my opinion. NDAI is too zingy for its place between two such bucolic moments. IMO, this is where WYDWM or ICBTW might have made for a better final trio. The only problem is that the album is like a game of Jenga: try to reposition one brick and everything could topple.

To be fair, I don't think Voyage is alone in getting some delayed/retrospective criticism. It's natural. For instance, I remember discussions on the older forums where the Voulez-Vous album got slapped about. After 40 years, we got something we never dared to dream about and there might have been an impulse to resist checking the gift horse's gob too closely for fear we'd appear ungrateful and ungracious. And there'll remain those who insist it's perfect from start to finish and those who repeatedly insist that only DSMD is worth a damn. I'm with Benny on this one: ISHFIY is my favourite. Personally, I've no interest in whether it's commercial - especially when it is so beautifully emotional, sincere, and emblematic of who the members of ABBA are now and have always been. It's a dignified, from-the-heart moment that didn't need to stitch in any sonic souvenir to remind the listener that this was ABBA.

I'm surprised and, to be honest, slightly disappointed that they leaned so heavily on those throwback moments. I can't quite decide if they're simply dad-jokes or if they're a symptom of faltering confidence: will they remember us? Should we remind them who we were? I love, love, love DSMD but I still don't know what possessed them to jam in that inelegant glissando and the cabaret sax synth. Yes, it's a long road to the (great) chorus without some production flourish but come on! Everything they needed to reassure us that ABBA hadn't lost it is right there in that chorus. When Agnetha and Frida sing together in that moment, it could be nobody else. Then that magical second chorus comes and tells us that it's even better than we had a right to expect.

I think Voyage has found its place in my own rankings for now. The Visitors remains my favourite. Voulez-Vous is close behind. But I think I might still enjoy Voyage a smidge more than Super Trouper and the other albums for now. Super Trouper, The Album and Arrival all tend to rotate in my affections and I'm sure Voyage will swoop from No.3 to No.6 on occasion.

Sure can imagine the outcry!

But maybe they shouldn't have got to the stage where they recorded another 8 songs. In that regard it is different to the 1982 songs. For Voyage they recorded the best first.

I can see similarities between DSMD and JLT. But to me DSMD is more a throwback, albeit it an improvement to Story of the Heart. Very theatrical verses with poppy chorus. And yes, I do like the glidsando usage.


I like ISHFIY and DSMD more or less equally. The former is the more complete song. The latter a bit more "cut to the chorus" type of song.

Hometime, it's interesting that your favourite ABBA albums are the most cohesive - and contrasting ABBA albums - The Visitors and Voulez Vous. Both would be in my Top 3.

I rather agree with these reviews by Guardian Music journalist Jude Rogers, a big ABBA fan. The first review of the first two songs was written within hours after they were unveiled to the world. Perhaps DSMD gets a better rating as it is more instant.Both get very good write uos.

The second review was published on 5th November as soon as Voyage was released. Jude had a copy for three days beforehand. In the album review she gives 2 stars which I feel is a bit harsh.

I agree that I Can Be That Woman has somewhat sexist lyrics but I can't see how you can say the same about GGG or OOU as Rogers says in an aside. No mention of No Doubt About It.

Quibbles aside, this review is actually spot on.

The Voyage Singles
www.theguardian.com/music/2021/sep/02/abbas-new-songs-reviewed-a-perky-moving-return-to-pops-highest-peaks

The Voyage album
www.theguardian.com/music/2021/nov/05/abba-voyage-review-pop-back

It’s interesting to see how we have “evolved” remember those days of complete nothingness, then the hope and finally the realisation of something new, and are we happy ..lol.. some of us clearly not, Perhaps I look at it from a more simplistic point of view and take all the tracks for what they are.. new... yes I like some more than others, but isn’t that true of all ABBAs albums, as well as other artists for that matter. It may take another 40 years for those tracks to find their place, not that I’ll be around, or highly unlikely..101 !!

I guess we have more right than most in a a way to be critical, but nothing really lives up to what we really want.. it’s all evolving nothing is as it was.....