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Post by Michal on Sept 18, 2021 4:39:59 GMT
I have to confess something: I am surprised that so many forum members keep on demanding Just Like That to be on VOYAGE. Wasn't Benny clear in 2017 that there is only a chorus? And that they never did find a fitting verse? Did all of you miss this message? He annouced that message after pressure from fans. Or: did I miss a message from Benny (in between 2017 and 2021) that they did find finally a fitting verse?? For ABBA Just Like That never was a complete song, because there was no verse! At least not one they were content with. So there was no song! Just a chorus. Just like that!  The discussion was re-ignited by the inclusion of Just A Notion and possibly Free As A Bumblebee (I really hope the latter is just a rumour!) - many fans feel that if these two much weaker songs could have been resurrected for Voyage, than why not Just Like That. Personally I think that the original ABBA version of Just Like That is very good and should have been released back then or at some later stage. I always say there are songs in ABBA catalogue that have much more inconsistent feel. However, I really don't think it's a good idea to include any songs (even BAO tracks) that were already released in some form, on a 2021 album. I really would like to hear as much NEW material as possible. Sure, Vinterhamn is beautiful, but we already have that one... I would be a bit disappointed if the other 8 songs on Voyage were re-worked songs that we already know... |
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Post by tagaytay on Sept 18, 2021 5:09:25 GMT
i had to listen to Vinterhamn on Youtube and it sounds like a christmas song to me
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Post by lamont on Sept 18, 2021 5:49:49 GMT
i had to listen to Vinterhamn on Youtube and it sounds like a christmas song to me Yes it is, it was on Benny’s Christmas album from 2012. |
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Post by tagaytay on Sept 18, 2021 5:57:30 GMT
Yes it is, it was on Benny’s Christmas album from 2012. oh! that figures. i like it but im sentimental about christmas. i would rather listen to silent night than "i saw mommy kissing santa claus" |
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Post by gamleman on Sept 18, 2021 6:33:48 GMT
I had not heard about Benny's comments in 2017 on "Just Like That". I think the original verse is absolutely fine and obviously a lot of other ABBA fans think so too. His final comment about having other things to do seems a little off-hand and I do think they should listen to what the fans want. For me, the whole ABBA version hangs together a lot better than the Gemini version, which is rather ploddy. And as far as releasing two versions of the same song (but this time with different choruses), I again refer people (Benny included) back to "Why Did It Have To Be Me" and "Happy Hawaii". As a related aside, it is interesting that this live BAO version of "Why Did It Have To Be Me" uses the instrumental intro from "Happy Hawaii":
I've had a listen to "Vinterhamn" and it does seem a distinct possibility that "Little Things" is an English version of this song - the English words fit so well. If so, I'm sure the combination of Agnetha and Frida's voices will significantly enhance it.
P.S. Going back to JLT, if they could release HH as an 'early version' of WDIHTBM in 1977, they could release an 'early version' of JLT now to keep their loyal fans happy, perhaps as an individual low-key download and/or the B-side of another physical single. In today's market of downloads and streaming, if a digital track catches the public's attention, it can still be a hit whether it's officially released as a single of not.
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Post by daronjulian on Sept 18, 2021 8:44:18 GMT
Can somebody on here clear things up?
A lot has been said about the pre-orders that have been received (and paid for) for the Voyage album.
When the album is realeased officialy will the amount of these pre-orders be lumped together and that will count as first week sales?
If so, ABBA should get a massive sales and enter Number One position in the first week. Have I got all this right?
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Post by Alan on Sept 18, 2021 8:57:43 GMT
If so, ABBA should get a massive sales and enter Number One position in the first week. Have I got all this right? That’s correct, yes. Two months is a long time and allows many of the people who will ever buy the album to pre-order it. It’s not guaranteed that Ed Sheeran’s second week sales won’t be higher though. I expect the album to drop in the second week, but might hold onto the top 10. I’d be surprised if it ever went back up after falling. It could pick up sales from the more casual Gold buyers though, even those that haven’t bothered checking out their other albums. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 9:30:50 GMT
This week the Manic Street Preachers got to #1 on just 27,000 sales. Steps at #2 on 25,000 sales.
It is crazy to release Voyage a week after Ed Sheeran's album.
There will be a big drop for Ed in week 2 and a high first week sales for ABBA. But will it be enough?
The intetest in ABBA will be them and the Abbatars show - not new material as much. I don't think Voyage would sell 30 to 40k in a week to grab a #1 spot around Christmas or in May - the launch of the show.
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Post by Michal on Sept 18, 2021 9:41:44 GMT
If so, ABBA should get a massive sales and enter Number One position in the first week. Have I got all this right? I expect the album to drop in the second week, but might hold onto the top 10. I’d be surprised if it ever went back up after falling. It could pick up sales from the more casual Gold buyers though, even those that haven’t bothered checking out their other albums. That's what I'm thinking. Somehow I can't see how the album would attract enough buyers later on, as most people, who want the album, pre-ordered it. Also the streaming will be highest in the first week after release, as many people will listen to it out of curiosity. But after that? Maybe the start of the ABBAtars concerts could re-ignite the interest of general public. But other than that I don't see much chance for any longevity in the charts. However, onlyabba4meagain has a different opinion, and he's the one who understands the charts more than anyone else here, I guess. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 10:28:50 GMT
Yes, Onlyabbaformeagain is a Chart Expert but on Voyage's longevity I believe he is simply wrong.
Sales (and streams) will be front loaded to opening week.
ABBA Gold attracts casual fans who just like the big hits. Voyage will be of interest only to the core fans.
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Post by Alan on Sept 18, 2021 10:48:42 GMT
More info regarding Bernard. Not sure who “abbaccess” are.  |
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Post by HOMETIME on Sept 18, 2021 11:21:30 GMT
The four new versions for the Japanese market intrigues me - especially in the context of additional material. The Japanese market seems to have some magical leverage over artists to include extra tracks on their albums. Especially "special editions." I wonder whether something new might come from that?
With regard to the Christmas single, there are some good angles to this. Leaving aside the question of whether it's an ABBA reworking of the very beautiful Vinterhamn, an ABBA Christmas single will appeal to playlisters on the more adult-oriented stations very well. Fans will be next key to success: a physical edition will be needed to hoist it to the charts in any shape or form. Maybe the vinyl edition will be as beautifully handled as ISHFIY - packaged with as much care as an album and, even though there wasn't a B-side, the "engraving" made for a lovely product. But imagine the impact of an actual non-album B-side? The lazy (and IMO ineffectual) solution would be to pop HNY on the flip. One of the unused songs, pretty please. Then consider some formats: e.g. a standard 7" single; a 10" coloured vinyl edition; a 12" picture disc with the B-side and HNY included. These would all make great stocking fillers. Beyond us anoraks diehard fans, the airplay brings the album back into public consciousness and, most likely, into the shopping baskets of people looking for a stocking filler for Auntie Agnes or Uncle Fred.
On the subject of Just Like That, it strikes me that DSMD is very much in the same stylistic ballpark as ABBA's original version of JLT - the structure, the tempo, the Agnetha verses, the harmonised hooks of the chorus... Two such similar songs on the one album might be a bit much, maybe? Not forgetting the fact that the original ABBA verse was recycled very nicely with When The Waves Roll Out To Sea for Chess. Even if they raised the tempo of the too-slow Gemini arrangement, they derailed a great chorus with an additional section that sounds more like a middle eight to my ears. That's not to say that they couldn't take a faster approach to the Gemini version and restore the original chorus (and maybe add an actual middle eight). But if Benny is getting noticeably grumpy about the matter, should we finally accept that it's really not going to happen? What if JLT was one of the scrapped extra tracks?!
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Post by Michal on Sept 18, 2021 11:42:01 GMT
This week the Manic Street Preachers got to #1 on just 27,000 sales. Steps at #2 on 25,000 sales. It is crazy to release Voyage a week after Ed Sheeran's album. Maybe they're confident they can beat Ed Sheeran and imagine if they really did! Outselling Sheeran would give their No.1 a new dimension and a great amount of credibility. It definitely sounds better than outselling Steps. |
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Post by Michal on Sept 18, 2021 11:47:10 GMT
The four new versions for the Japanese market intrigues me - especially in the context of additional material. The Japanese market seems to have some magical leverage over artists to include extra tracks on their albums. Especially "special editions." I wonder whether something new might come from that? I'm afraid they're the versions that appeared on Amazon already - i.e. Voyage + Gold, Voayge + Essential, Voyage + ABBA In Japan and...? Probably a SHM-CD. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 11:49:05 GMT
^ True.
Ed's last proper studio album sold 600k in week 1.
The new album won't be as high.
And very likely a big drop in week 2.
If ABBA's week 1 sales are say 200k, they may well indeed have a chance at #1 - if Adele doesn't release her album. But even if she did I can't imagine they will be a anything like her last album's 800k opening week.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 11:52:09 GMT
If you could add one or both of the new singles to Gold, would you and what would you replace?
In: ISHFIY
out:I Have Dream
In: DSMD
out: Voulez Vous
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Post by lamont on Sept 18, 2021 13:43:59 GMT
Think you need to remember how huge ABBA were/are, they definitely have a great chance of topping the charts, Music Week in 1992 thought that Gold was ‘one compilation too many’ but Polydor had done all their market research and it worked.
We don’t know what else the group have planned in first week in November, a TV special with them chatting to a renowned journalist may be in the making. A music video featuring the ABBAtars for Don’t Shut Me Down, plus a vinyl release, maybe, just maybe Just Like That, or a Voyage reject as a B side, there is no way Universal are going to leave this release to chance, they will be gunning for the No’1, and want the 5 million plus people who bought Gold to invest in this. According to some, the shows have sold 250,000 tickets.
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Post by daronjulian on Sept 18, 2021 14:05:29 GMT
Just arrived in post this morning. My own custom made ISHFIY 7" picture disc. I wasn't allowed to use the ABBA logo or the Voyage lettering, so just went for the image alone. This image is on the record sleeve edition anyway with no type included. Special thanks to vinylart.co   |
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Post by foreverfan on Sept 18, 2021 14:14:04 GMT
FYI..
Just for reference really..
Latest figures for Gold say that so far in 2021 it has sold approx 110,000 and is the 13th Best seller of the year in the UK charts..
As a comparison, to show how low sales are in general, the number One best selling album of the year so far is Olivia Rodrigo and Sour and has only sold 307,000..
So anything in advance of 100,000 is huge for sales of today.....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 16:16:00 GMT
Think you need to remember how huge ABBA were/are, they definitely have a great chance of topping the charts, Music Week in 1992 thought that Gold was ‘one compilation too many’ but Polydor had done all their market research and it worked. We don’t know what else the group have planned in first week in November, a TV special with them chatting to a renowned journalist may be in the making. A music video featuring the ABBAtars for Don’t Shut Me Down, plus a vinyl release, maybe, just maybe Just Like That, or a Voyage reject as a B side, there is no way Universal are going to leave this release to chance, they will be gunning for the No’1, and want the 5 million plus people who bought Gold to invest in this. According to some, the shows have sold 250,000 tickets. 1. Gold was perhaps a surprise hit. It's sales are over almost 30 years and the album appeals to general music fans too - people who have never bought an album 2. Don't Shut Me Down should have had a proper video and vinyl single. Alas, that ship has sailed. 3. Just Like That is not happening. 4. Yes, ABBA will go for a big media blitz. Expect to see them or at least Benny and Bjorn on TV interviews. They will indeed be gunning for a #1 album. 5. People will have more long term interest in ABBAtars than the new album after its first couple of weeks. |
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Post by onlyabba4meagain on Sept 18, 2021 17:10:17 GMT
I've heard that 'Little Things' is about Children, at Christmas. A great many People always want to
add new Christmas Songs to their Christmas Playlists. If 'Little Things' is good enough, Millions
will add it. 'Old' Acts place a few dozen Christmas Songs, in the UK Top 100, every November
and December. These days, they vanish, from the Charts, as soon as January starts. They then
Re-Chart, the following Year, and the Year after that, and so on. It would be nice, to see ABBA
in the Singles Chart, every Christmas. Instead of only in the Album Chart, with 'Gold'.
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Post by gamleman on Sept 18, 2021 20:30:42 GMT
Been away all day, so not had the chance to react since my post this morning.
I agree with HOMETIME that DSMD is in a not dissimilar vein to JLT, but I don't think "When The Waves Roll Out To Sea" is really a factor in this, as it is another demo/unreleased track. I think we can forget about JLT appearing on an album (any album) but it is still my hope that they can see it in their hearts to release it somehow. Some artists getting such a positive reaction from fans to an 'unreleased' track would take that as a sign to do something positive. Of the artists that I like, perhaps only B&B and Kate Bush would not. Roxette are at the other extreme - Per recently released a CD/vinyl boxset of all the unreleased and rare Roxette material that he could lay his hands on.
I also agree with HOMETIME on the Christmas single, if there will be such a thing - they'll need to throw everything at it in terms of a video and physical formats to take full advantage of the Christmas spending spree. But if "Little Things" is an English version of "Vinterhamn", my worry is that it might not be right as a single for the Anglophone market.
Regarding the chart movements of "Voyage", I don't think we can really predict this with any accuracy, as all sorts of things could happen. I believe the lead-up to Christmas could be quite lucrative for a traditional act like ABBA, at least in physical sales (i.e Christmas presents). Once an album (or any other product) sinks into the public consciousness, it becomes a must-have and generates its own momentum, but the trick is to get "Voyage" to that point. And there only needs to be a high-profile TV documentary about ABBA at some point in the year and sales could soar again - I think this has previously happened for Gold. The publicity surrounding the opening of the ABBAtars show could help but I doubt that the on-going show will have a large impact on sales, although it could allow the album to bounce around towards the bottom of the charts for some time to come.
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Post by onlyabba4meagain on Sept 18, 2021 22:18:18 GMT
Gamleman -- I've no idea how many UK Sales 'Voyage' will have in Week 1. I've seen, (elsewhere),
that several ABBA Fans, think that if it is not No.1, in its first Chart Week, (W/E 25th November), then
it has: 'Lost its chance', and it will never get there. They also predict a short Chart Run, for it. I guess
maybe 4 to 8 Weeks. But, you can hang around the No.10 Album Position, on just 4,500 Sales. So, the
pessimistic Fans, are really predicting, that its Sales will collapse, in 4 to 8 Weeks. Even lower, than the
1,200 a Week, you need to stay in the Top 100. So, the 'doom and gloom' Fans are expecting its Sales,
to collapse, to less than 1,000 a Week, after just 1 to 2 Months. I really cannot see it. We will see how
'Voyage' is doing in Week 3 - both in the UK and Globally. Week 3 should be the biggest indicator.
As to the Christmas Single. We really don't know, if it is based on an already existing Song. It may be
totally New. But 'doom and gloom' Fans, say that it won't be much of a Hit. That it is not going to be
a 'Christmas Classic', that Re-Charts every November and December. I've no idea what will happen to
it. It may not even be a Single. The swift collapse, of the 2 current Singles, may make ABBA decide to
never Release another Single - ever again. We will see what ABBA decide. A great many Christmas Hits
Re-Chart each Year. They don't have to be up-tempo, sing-a-long ones. Many are slow Ballads. But, a few
Fans, are saying that ABBA can only have success, if 'Little Things' is fast. Another 'Rule', that some Fans
have totally created - in their own heads.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 5:15:04 GMT
Onlyabba4meagain
Voyage's sales may be similar to say The Visitors but its chart run will be longer because as you say sales are so low now.
You seem dismissive of fans who believe November is its only chance to get to Number One. Maybe, may be not.
But after initially release and rivals of Ed Sheeran and Adele you think it *could* be #1 in December or January. It would need to sell at least 30k a week - a month or two after release to have a chance. Not impossible but that is a hard ask. Yes Top. Yes Top 5. But number one after all that time?
Studio album sales of albums by "vintage" acts deline rapidly.
Little Things - Christmas song.
None of us know what is sounds like.
But is is fair to say the best Christmas songs are uptempo, Mariah, Shaky, Slade, Wizzard, Andy Williams - even Wham.
There are good slow ones. I like Greg Lake's I Believe in Father Christmas but they don't do as well, year after year, as the faster paced ones.
These aren't rules some have imagined.
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Post by Michal on Sept 19, 2021 7:49:31 GMT
I think we can forget about JLT appearing on an album (any album) but it is still my hope that they can see it in their hearts to release it somehow. Some artists getting such a positive reaction from fans to an 'unreleased' track would take that as a sign to do something positive. Of the artists that I like, perhaps only B&B and Kate Bush would not. Roxette are at the other extreme - Per recently released a CD/vinyl boxset of all the unreleased and rare Roxette material that he could lay his hands on. The big difference between B&B and Per Gessle is that Per is his own biggest fan and he can talk about all of his compositions with uncritical affection even if they're total crap  But this approach is indeed a blessing for us fans. The Bag of Trix is like a chest of treasure. And still there are Roxette fans who would complain - you can never fully please everybody. I still secretly hope that Björn and Benny will change their mind and release the original ABBA version of Just Like That at some point but they have said so many times that they would never do, that I don't expect we will ever hear it officially. |
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Post by onlyabba4meagain on Sept 19, 2021 7:56:46 GMT
Johnny -- Honestly, I'm not 'dismissive' of the Fans, who think that 'Voyage' only
has November to get to No.1. I just don't agree with them. Of course, I could be
100% wrong, and it could turn out to be a, 'November or Never' chance, for ABBA
to get to No.1. I can only express my opinion. Just like the Fans, who disagree
with me. I tend to just talk about ABBA and the UK Charts. Of course, it will be
in with a chance, of being No.1 in Germany too, (their 8th there), or Sweden,
(10th there). Or The Netherlands, (8th there), or Norway, (10th there) etc.
Even if 'Voyage's' Sales collapse, in Week 4 or Week 5, it can still hang around
the Charts of many Countries, on low Sales. I've no idea, how long 'Voyage' will
be in any Charts. I'm hoping for a long stay. Steps have just had their 3rd UK
No.2 Album, in a row. Their Albums never hang around the Top 10, (or Top 100),
for very long. ABBA are far more popular than Steps, so ABBA's Album should be
a far bigger UK Hit. Globally too, where Steps mean very little.
Like all ABBA Fans, I just want ABBA to do well.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 8:49:04 GMT
Clearly ABBA will have more weeks in the chart than Steps. The issue is if Voyage will get to #1
Thinking internationally, it will do well in its European heartland - Scandinavia, Germany, Switzerland, and the UK.
Going by the lack of success of the singles in former strongholds of the Netherlands and Belgium maybe not as big as you might expect?
I expect - and I could be wrong, its sales pattern similar to The Visitors.
Less strong in "Latin Europe" - France, Spain, Italy and outside Europe.
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Post by foreverfan on Sept 19, 2021 10:23:56 GMT
Picking up on what Colin referred to... Will there be a another single release ? its not a flippant question, as we know that once the album is released up to 3 tracks will be able to enter the UK singles charts each week, depending on all sales criteria and those 3 tracks could change each week, its not impossible over 3-4 weeks to see all tracks hit the charts....unlikely , but not impossible....
So its not necessarily a given that Little Things or any other track will ever be officially released as a single...
Personally as much as I love DSMD , the video isn't up to much, half as many views on you tube than ISHFIY 10 million - 20 million approx, and could've been a bigger hit if it had had a proper video ? ...
Also would they release a full ABBAtar video so far ahead of the show.... sort of ruin the surprise of the show, put people off going ! or could it enhance it ? all ifs buts and maybes....
But could we have seen the last official " full " release of an ABBA single ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 12:11:11 GMT
^ I think we have seen the last physical ABBA singles. Of course songs can still chart if they are downloaded or streamed enough.
After the release of Voyage, why would you even release a single?
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Post by justabba on Sept 19, 2021 13:21:17 GMT
I would be very suprised if little things gets a single release, universal wont want to issue on 7 inch and cd single.
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But this approach is indeed a blessing for us fans. The Bag of Trix is like a chest of treasure. And still there are Roxette fans who would complain - you can never fully please everybody.