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Post by johnny on Oct 29, 2024 9:46:31 GMT
Without going into very complex rules about Streaming, if you listen to an ABBA song it will count 3 times. 1) As a single/song 2) For a studio album 3) For the nominated GH album (or best selling GH if none nominated. It doesn't matter what album the song you heard comes from it will count to all of those three.
I know Gold's longevity is only an interest to a tiny number of us. But why throw that away? The Singles is NOT going to do better than GOLD this year - just in or just out of the Top 20, mainly on Streams. It would need real physical sales which have started off very small and will be practically zero soon. At least GOLD still sells some physical copies every week.
The Singles could be ABBA's long term nominated album if they take a leaf out of Fleetwood Mac's book. They have a 50 years album also in hideous red cover with horrible cartoon. It has sold next to nothing physically. Its stay in the Charts due to streaming.
They had a one disc GH album, covering the "Classic Line Up" period with their best known songs. That made way for the newer 50 GH album. Sound familiar?
Om chart manipulation, I agree it is. Also for certifications. I wonder if box sets count as GH albums? If so The Albums box set could be nominated as a GH album and get a gold disc after a couple of weeks.
I don't like this "sales equivalent" malarkey for Streams. For Singles just do Streaming and count actual streams not giving them a "sales" figure - like they do in Sweden.
For albums, I'd have just actual sales. This may be "unfair" to artists that have mainly streams but albums should be about a whole collection. Lift the 3 song limit in Singles Chart.
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Post by Michal on Oct 29, 2024 13:00:07 GMT
Isn't the logic behind nominating The Singles for streaming simply the fact that it contains more tracks and thus it can possibly chart higher on streams alone? I mean, if I stream e.g. the ABBA album, only Mamma Mia and SOS streams go to ABBA Gold, but in case of The Singles it's Mamma Mia, SOS, I Do and So Long. Or are the streams halved because it is a double album? Otherwise the most effective way would be to nominate the likes of The Complete Studio Recordings, where every single song ABBA ever released counts.
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Post by baab on Oct 29, 2024 13:01:43 GMT
If I check ABBA on Spotify, they are around the 125th to 140th place in global streaming with approx. 32 Million monthly listeners.
For a legacy act this is not a bad position, acts like Led Zeppelin or Boney M. have around 16 Million, Deep Purple 5 Million,The Beatles with 36 Million are not too much away, Queen is much infront with 56 Million monthly listeners.
I was shocked that Lady Gaga is on #3 with 110 Million monthly listeners, I didn't think that she is actually that present...
And although you cannot compare/equal streaming with physical sales, overall this "monthly listeners" Charts reflect the overall position of the multi million selling Artists, like e.g. Queen in the "big five" and ABBA being in the "big ten" or "big twenty", depends on which sources you take.
For me this is proof enough to see that they are and most likely forever will be still relevant.
AND definitely, like the ABBAtars and the Mamma Mia Musical or not, very very few acts will ever draw such masses to such ongoing events with their back catalogue like ABBA can do.
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Post by baab on Oct 29, 2024 13:14:03 GMT
I’m unclear on how this streaming lark works. I have the free version of Spotify but never use it E.g. in the "old days" I turned the radio on in my car or entered a CD. Now, my car doesn't have a CD player. But my car connects to my mobile, I have Spotify on my mobile, so technically, I stream every time I drive my car. When I'm at home, I still love to use my vintage hifi set up. In opposite, my man has completely ceased physical sources and bought a Braun streaming sound system instead. The possibilities are so varied... |
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Post by baab on Oct 29, 2024 14:06:33 GMT
I didn’t really put too much hope into the Waterloo single, but as you say, those creases! I hope it’s not something in the packaging that’s causing that. I can confirm, my copy arrived in perfect condition very well packed from Japan. I know, I will not hang up the posters or use the stickers, but altogether this package is cute and innovative so far so that I like this item a lot. It's a shame that it was not released worldwide. It maybe throw more a light on this very special attitude, Japanese have in sight of packaging, design, paying attention to details of products than on Universals general approach for ABBA releases. I collect N Gauge Japan trains and find this Special attitude there as well :-D |
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Post by johnny on Oct 29, 2024 14:32:49 GMT
Isn't the logic behind nominating The Singles for streaming simply the fact that it contains more tracks and thus it can possibly chart higher on streams alone? I mean, if I stream e.g. the ABBA album, only Mamma Mia and SOS streams go to ABBA Gold, but in case of The Singles it's Mamma Mia, SOS, I Do and So Long. Or are the streams halved because it is a double album? Otherwise the most effective way would be to nominate the likes of The Complete Studio Recordings, where every single song ABBA ever released counts. It's not certain if Universal nominated The Singles. It could be The Singles got the streams as it sold more physical/download sales than GOLD. The top 12 tracks only are used or all if fewer than 12 tracks. So double, triple, box sets aren't advantaged. In British Charts the top 2 tracks' streams are reduced to the album average so very popular tracks eg Dancing Queen or Mamma Mia can't hype up sales for their particular album. The American Charts don't have that rule. Anyway, a simple guide to UK streaming... absolutelabelservices.com/ukchartstreamingratios/ |
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Post by gazman on Oct 29, 2024 14:51:18 GMT
It's not certain if Universal nominated The Singles. It could be The Singles got the streams as it sold more physical/download sales than GOLD. The top 12 tracks only are used or all if fewer than 12 tracks. So double, triple, box sets aren't advantaged. In British Charts the top 2 tracks' streams are reduced to the album average so very popular tracks eg Dancing Queen or Mamma Mia can't hype up sales for their particular album. The American Charts don't have that rule. Anyway, a simple guide to UK streaming... absolutelabelservices.com/ukchartstreamingratios/My understanding is that the '12-track' rule became a '16-track' rule a short while back. Therefore, for The Singles, it will almost certainly be DQ and GGG averaged down to the next 14 (likely to be 13 from 'Gold', plus Angeleyes, which is currently streaming far higher than tracks such as The Name Of The Game or One Of Us). As you say - as /when the streams go back to 'Gold' - it is 'as you were'.... |
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Post by johnny on Oct 29, 2024 20:13:01 GMT
An unboxing video from Super Deluxe Edition
Totally unimpressed - especially with the vinyl Edition. As Dolly Parton might say, something that's so expensive looks so cheap.
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Post by johnny on Oct 29, 2024 21:41:07 GMT
ABBADiego slates this.
14 pages of red and designed by a twat!
It does look horrendous.
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Post by Alan on Oct 29, 2024 23:52:24 GMT
I can confirm, my copy arrived in perfect condition very well packed from Japan. That’s good to hear! I’ve seen some photos on Discogs - the thing that concerns me is the bit that holds the CDs in the middle. It obviously has to stick out a bit - would this cause any marks on the sleeve? The vinyl single replica looks OK. I wouldn’t have played it had it been real anyway. However, it’s only supposed to have the one track per side but the design looks as though it’s divided into tracks, and no run-off groove. Oh well, the label looks authentic enough.   |
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Post by baab on Oct 30, 2024 2:43:49 GMT
Alan, this "single replica" is a plain piece of plastic. The middle piece should not damage anything, as long as there is no pressure put on the outer cover.
I was told that the CD includes the "alternative" mix of "Head Over Heels". I must admit, I didn't hear the difference...
But that is an issue I have with many "alternative" mixes which are available from ABBA, like the "Andante, Andante" mix in the Singles box. Most changes are so minor, I find them unimpressive.
Madonna has this set of Remixes which is fascinating to hear, or the remix 12" Singles from Depeche Mode, they are iconic and truly collectable.
Nothing like that is available from ABBA and I don't think, Björn and Benny were good at letting real remixes of their songs happen, once they were finalised.
The remixes of songs from Gemini, Chess or Josefin Nilsson are also kind of unimpressive...
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Post by Michal on Oct 30, 2024 10:30:32 GMT
johnny, thanks for explaining! I had no idea there was this 12 (or 16) track rule. Does the same rule apply to albums?
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Post by johnny on Oct 30, 2024 11:41:19 GMT
That was for albums! Individual tracks from albums count towards the albums total. But Top 16 (now) tracks.
Individuala don't have to listen to a whole album or a majority of it. But the total of everyone listening to the tracks is calculated with top 16 tracks used.
In GOLD that would exclude The Name of the Game, One of Us and some other track.
Determine "sales" out of streaming is very tricky. There is no global standardisation
1.Factors include premium vs free streaming (some countries exclude free, others give lower value)
2.How long you have to listen to a track (in UK 30 seconds)
3.Do you factor in very popular tracks (UK and Germany do, US doesn't. Actually in physical era people would buy a CD album for justc1 or two tracks.
4.Are video streams counted? (In UK they are but haven't always been)
5. Can you nominate a GH album? (Yes in English speaking countries, No in most mainland European countries)
6. For Singles, are there different ratios for current and older singles? (In UK, yes for current chart bit no for "all time sales " or certications.
7. Other factors in compiling charts. US uses airplay (for songs), Germany has value based system
So much easier in days when you just added up sales!
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Post by Alan on Oct 30, 2024 12:41:49 GMT
I was told that the CD includes the "alternative" mix of "Head Over Heels". I must admit, I didn't hear the difference... But that is an issue I have with many "alternative" mixes which are available from ABBA, like the "Andante, Andante" mix in the Singles box. Most changes are so minor, I find them unimpressive. Both Andante Andante and Head Over Heels are different. I prefer the Andante Andante one to the original. An accordion is present and I’m pretty sure it’s a different vocal take from Frida. Head Over Heels is also noticeable, but it’s only the first verse that’s different. The standard version uses the same chorus vocals twice (apparently the second chorus vocals were “flown in” to replace the first). The alternate version instead has two different chorus vocals. Assuming it wasn’t standard practice for ABBA to use the same chorus vocals twice in a song, it would mean the standard version is an error and the alternate one the “correct” version. abbaomnibus.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/the-great-head-over-heels-mystery/I was hoping this new compilation would dig out an alternative mix we hadn’t heard before, but it seems Head Over Heels will have to do. It appeared on The Visitors deluxe but I think that’s now deleted and therefore fetches high prices. |
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Post by rickyrocknroller on Oct 30, 2024 14:29:20 GMT
An unboxing video from Super Deluxe Edition Totally unimpressed - especially with the vinyl Edition. As Dolly Parton might say, something that's so expensive looks so cheap. Wow, the difference to the original The Singles 10 is staggering. The Singles 50 is like a budget product at full (even high) price. That it's a major release and streams get pulled from Gold to promote it is just bonkers.
ABBADiego is also so right on the bad design. The garish red made my eyes hurt just looking at his video. The blank red pages are even worse on the vinyl edition. It just baffles me why you would reduce the pictures to mikograms on one page and have like a dozen of blank (red!) pages instead of at least putting one picture per side.
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Post by onlyabba4meagain on Oct 30, 2024 18:34:33 GMT
'The Singles' is down from No.13 to No.16, in the UK's Wednesday
Mid Week Chart. That is for Sales from Friday to Tuessay. So, it
is likely to fall even further, by Friday's Full Week Chart. At this
point, it looks like it will only be in the UK Top 100, for 2 or 3
Weeks. Then 'ABBA Gold' will Re-Chart.
I watched a YouTube Video of a Fan 'Unboxing' 'The Singles'.
I did not realise that, so many of the Pages in it, were just Red
Blanks! The Fellow was very annoyed by this. He counted each
Blank Page. I tried to keep up with his count, but we ended up
1 Page difference. He counted 14, and I got it to be 15. But, it
is an awful lot of Blank Pages, whether it be 14 or 15. I'm not
interested in ABBA Photos myself, but you'd not expect there
to be 14 or 15 Plain Red Pages, in an expensive ABBA Release.
Like several other Fans, he was annoyed by the too wide spacing,
between the 'e' in The , and the 'S' in Singles. He actually used a
very vulgar swear word, to describe the Person, who designed the
Cover! He also pointed out something, that I've not seen any other
Fans say. I assume that, (like me), other Fans did not notice. That
is that the 'i' in Singles, is not really an 'i' at all. It is actually the
Number 1, with a Dot above it! He is right. It is a Numeral - not
a Letter. I cannot undestand why anyone would do that to the Title.
After he examined the New Compilation, he called it the worst ABBA
Release ever. That it had far too many faults with it. That it was poorly
designed and thought out. That he cannot understand why Universal
don't try to get ABBA Fans views, and ideas, before they Release such
Compilations...
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Post by johnny on Oct 30, 2024 18:55:57 GMT
Onlyabba4meagain - that fan you describe is AbbaDiego - posted and re-posted here. Do you read other people's posts?
So The Singles might just scrape in Top 20. It's sales maybe 5500k. 4500k, GOLD gets on Streams and just 1000 sales.
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Post by Alan on Oct 30, 2024 19:01:48 GMT
He also pointed out something, that I've not seen any other Fans say. I assume that, (like me), other Fans did not notice. That is that the 'i' in Singles, is not really an 'i' at all. It is actually the Number 1, with a Dot above it! He is right. It is a Numeral - not a Letter. I cannot undestand why anyone would do that to the Title. I don’t think he’s right there. There are plenty of worthy criticisms of this release but that isn’t one of them. It’s an “i”. It’s the font that’s been used. The stalks of the “h”, “n” and “l” look the same. Anyone know what the font is called?  |
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Post by baab on Oct 30, 2024 19:13:55 GMT
Alan, it is "Times New Roman" and the "i" is the correct Letter en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_New_RomanYou can critizise much about this release, but the typography is correct. However, it doesn't look as elegant as the The Singles The First Ten Years typography, that is true! |
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Post by Alan on Oct 30, 2024 20:08:42 GMT
Thanks baab. I didn’t realise it would be a font as regular as Times New Roman! This would be an example of fans over-thinking things, and trying to find faults when there aren’t any. I’m a bit bored now of the whole “The Visitors / Thank You For The Music / On and On and On should be on it” argument. All three are on Gold or More Gold so are well-aired and available to anyone. And random album tracks I can’t agree with as everyone would have an opinion on which ones to include. Singles is a good basis and it really does have to start with the Polar ones. After nearly two months of knowing about this compilation, it’s only really the artwork I can find fault with. |
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Post by Alan on Oct 30, 2024 22:31:34 GMT
Onlyabba4meagain - that fan you describe is AbbaDiego - posted and re-posted here. Do you read other people's posts? I think he said in the first of his two most recent posts that he doesn’t read anyone else’s posts (see point 7 of his post from 28 October*). I think he’s a bit afraid of someone being rude to him. It looks like he just comes on, does his post and then goes again, so he wouldn’t have known that anyone had already posted ABBADiego’s video. *Though I think he was referring to social media there, not this forum. Social media seems to be full of nasty, angry people who want everyone to be as angry as them about the things they’re angry about. I hope Colin isn’t on X/Twitter, that’s the worst of the lot. |
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Post by johnny on Oct 31, 2024 9:23:07 GMT
It's a pity Colin feels that way.....
On vinyl, I understand there's a limit to the sound quality per side. I think 20 to 22 minutes.
With that in mind here's my 3 disc/6 side vinyl version for The Singles
Side 1 1973-5
Ring Ring
Waterloo
Honey Honey
So Long
I Do x 5
SOS
Mamma Mia
Side 2 1976-77
Fernando
Dancing Queen
Money Money Money
Knowing Me Knowing You
The Name of the Game
Side 3 1978-79
Take a Chance on Me
Eagle (single version)
Thankyou for the Music
Summer Night City
Chiquitita
Side 4 1979
Does Your Mother Know
Angeleyes
Voulez Vous
Gimme Gimme Gimme
I Have a Dream
Side 5 1980-82
The Winner Takes it All
Super Trouper
Lay All Your Love On Me
One of Us
When All is Said and Done
Side 6 1982-2021
Head Over Heels
The Day Before You Came
Under Attack
I Still Have Faith in You
Don't Shut Me Down
You could have a fourth disc - with deeper cuts " The Singles...and More" could be the name of this album.
The final disc could have an album track from each album (2x The Visitors)...plus Hit By a Train.
Side 7
People Need Love
My Mama Said
I've Been Waiting For You
When I Kissed the Teacher
Hole in Your Soul
If it Wasn't For the Nights (edited)
Side 8
On and On and On
The Visitors
Slipping Through My Fingers
Hit By a Train
No Doubt About It *this isn't where it ends*
I would have bought this, even with crappy cover.
EDIT: On second thoughts, maybe not with that cheap and nasty cover 😀
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Post by HOMETIME on Oct 31, 2024 10:14:34 GMT
I'm not sure that the font on the new release is Times New Roman - but it's pretty close. How lazy and basic! I have some elderly design software, which includes a font called Modern No. 20, which is very close to (but not exactly the same as) the font used in 1982. Just for giggles, I mocked up the title on a garish red background using both fonts. And for those who'd rightly encourage me to "get out of the house more", it took me about 3 or four minutes. It's not precise, but it shows you how little went into the new cover design.  |
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Post by johnny on Oct 31, 2024 12:53:38 GMT
OK, I am calling it out now.
The Singles will sell 3 to 5k in its first week. Nah, not in the UK. Globally - and for real physical sales. No streaming malarkey (like in the UK), no inflated chart position due to being value-based (as in Germany).
1,000 in the UK. The same in Germany and most of the "Rest of the Wotld" sales confined to the usual suspects - Scandinavia, Benelux and possibly Australia.
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Post by Alan on Oct 31, 2024 16:35:44 GMT
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Post by baab on Oct 31, 2024 20:50:00 GMT
no inflated chart position due to being value-based (as in Germany). Yeah, I guess enough Vinyl versions were sold in Germany, "ABBA The Singles" enters the German Album Charts at #5. |
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