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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 25, 2024 19:06:20 GMT
It actually sounds good to me, too. I get the feeling that the launch point is the acceptance that ABBA's music is solid gold brilliance but other nonsense got in the way of its appreciation. So it's not an analysis of the music or the recordings or the performances, but the story of a genius group triumphing against the odds. Other documentaries are clearly needed - especially to delve into the music, its creation, its longevity. That would be an opportunity to look at the brilliance of The Visitors, possibly even as a standalone episode. Maybe something biographical that sidesteps the tabloid factoids, too.
But now I'm wondering how much overlap there might be between Against The Odds and When ABBA Came To Britain.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 25, 2024 11:21:52 GMT
So.... Any news from Denmark? How was the cinematic event? Have there been any reviews?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 23, 2024 21:34:40 GMT
That is a LOT of money. That's the sort of bungling that should have lost someone their job.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 22, 2024 20:24:56 GMT
That's odd, onlyabba4meagain, given how well they've been represented on the other yearbooks. I wonder if the anniversary plans made a difference in terms of what they'd allow? Yes, the Queen arrangement is a bit tedious. I'm not sure how reliable the information is, but I had heard that Queen imposed the condition that they have to be the opening track on any of these compilations.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 21, 2024 14:41:22 GMT
That still baffles me. All that money just... blown. A rare top 3 hit and they didn't capitalise on it? Madness. There were (IMO) three further candidates for follow-up single on The Album: an edit of Eagle; One Man, One Woman; and Hole In Your Soul. All very American-sounding tracks (OMOW especially). They even had videos for two of them.
Atlantic refused SNC because the album wasn't ready - bonkers. Maybe they felt Chiquitita wasn't a perfect fit for the US market at that time, and January probably wasn't the right time for a single with the word Summer in its title. But IIWFTN was ready by then, and a 7" edit had even been made and test pressed (it appeared briefly on Discogs in the last couple of years). All of that seems like label incompetence to me, but the biggest crime was not following TACOM within a month or two. And what was the notoriously grumpy and pushy Stig doing during all of this?
Maybe the Against All Odds docu will mention this period?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 20, 2024 16:21:25 GMT
I guess we'll find out soon enough! The good thing is that the format seems to avoid the schlocky tabloidesque guff that tainted some other ABBA "documentaries." It seems like a genuinely respectful series. Given the guest talking heads that appear, I can't help wondering whether Pete effing Waterman will manage to insert himself into this one! I have a hunch that the likes of John Tobler and Judd Lander will appear. Will they drag Charlie (Bates?? am I misremembering his surname?), the editor of the ABBA Magazine, in front of the camera?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 20, 2024 16:06:13 GMT
Thanks for that matt. It shoots down the tried old nonsense about nothing being left in the vaults. Nice try, Bjorn! That's the sort of stuff that makes this book attractive, lamont. I think I'm edging towards ordering a copy.... Possibly.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 19, 2024 20:14:42 GMT
I totally take your point. The WBCTB docu paid almost as much attention to the people in their orbit as it did to Blondie. PR people, promoters, photographers, producers and crew. There was a sense of many of these people revelling in their own perceived coolness/relevance. And fine, go for it. The end result was excellent. From what I've seen (I've been catching up on those episodes I've missed) the other programmes in the series didn't really deviate from that kind of approach.
But the feel of the programme seemed reliant on cool - both Blondie's, and that of the people around them. ABBA, by sharp contrast, faced a lot of sneering, snobbery. Sexism plagued both - it was the 70s after all. I'm wondering how any of the people from back then will account for themselves - media heads, journalists, reviewers, etc. And that might well be the whole point of the exercise: maybe those attitudes will be explored. I'm really curious about whether any of the ABBA members will take part, as Blondie did?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 19, 2024 19:17:50 GMT
True. I've been surprised over the years, hearing some artists being dismissive of and/or embarrassed by some of their most beloved hits.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 19, 2024 16:33:46 GMT
I recall Bjorn mentioning quite recent about TKHLHC being a good song.... ( I agree but many don't ) and there may be others.. But you're right in the most part , outside of the " singles" they rarely mention any other track.... Its always in the the " ear" of the beholder, and for many of us there are great tracks outside of those 20 or so, or even worse the 15 you mentioned.... I agree with him re. TKHLHC too. Benny is a conundrum. I remember an interview with B&B on MTV around 1992, when Gold had just topped the chart for the first time. The interviewer was asking them about their pride in ABBA's music and Benny said something like "I can't believe we weren't killed for being so corny." Now, I don't know if that was a stab at false modesty or some level of distain for ABBA's poppiness. For all his preciousness about recording standards and the tiny number of those he rates, he must surely have some proper perspective now? If not, why invest time, money and ego in Mamma Mia!, the Voyage show and the Voyage album? Does the ker-ching of a cash register override all those qualms? With reference to Benny's number 15 - did he say recordings or songs? There is a difference when you weight that up.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 18, 2024 19:47:30 GMT
I've just watched When Blondie Came To Britain over on YouTube. A really good production.
I wonder how much revisionism will be needed to give it the same kind of shape? Blondie had more critical acclaim and perceived cool because of the edginess of their music - the earlier stuff, especially. Looking forward to seeing what emerges. Where the Blondie show ends with their Glasto appearance, ABBA's will probably conclude with Voyage. A great ad for the show and it can only be cooler and more elegant than the stuff that came out in the Mamma Mia! early years.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 18, 2024 16:26:09 GMT
That's kinda what I was thinking too, so I don't know what they can use from the Wogan show, given that ABBA never appeared. Still, only few weeks before we get to see what the new show offers.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 18, 2024 14:38:34 GMT
Little enough to scare the horses there, with all the re-runs. I think the bookies will give short odds on Dancing Queen as the ultimate ABBA song.
More ABBA at the BBC mentions Wogan - which will be Agnetha performing The Last Time, and possibly the related interview. Unless they propose to include Gemini's performance of Just Like That, with Benny on keyboards? Other than that, there's If It Wasn't For The Nights on Mike Yarwood and Lovers (Live A little Longer) from ABBA In Switzerland - both absent from the first ABBA At The BBC. Will they include the two brief appearances by Frida and Agnetha on TOTP promoting their respective albums? Will there be clips of Agnetha promoting A in 2013? Anything from Chess, maybe? Or will the focus be tightly trained on the group?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 18, 2024 12:06:08 GMT
Thanks for that, Colin!
An improved/expanded/completed ABBA At The BBC would be welcome. The When ABBA Came To Britain documentary could be really interesting.
The 50th anniversary aside, this suggests (to me, anyway) that TV producers are finally realising that their previous laziness won't cut it any more. The Against The Odds production (of which I'm sure TV stations have seen by now for scheduling purposes) will hopefully knock future producers out of their complacency. Discrete parts of the overall story offer great opportunities for exploration.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 17, 2024 17:58:20 GMT
It’s something of a revelation that Hit By A Train was completed. It had previously been implied that it was one of two imcomplete tracks that needed more work. If it is “dark, beautiful and upbeat” it sounds like it should have been on the album instead of Little Things. Or Just A Notion. Unless it's too close, stylistically, to one of the other album tracks? Or maybe it has a solo lead vocal that might upset the vocal balance on the album? So we have no information at all on My Story Ends With You? That's disappointing. Here are my stand out moments from the voyage chapter by CMP.. [...] 3, there is a completely different version of ode that was worked on throughout 2019. [...] That sounds properly interesting, and something that could grace an anthology and/or a deluxe edition of Voyage.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 17, 2024 16:15:42 GMT
Agreed. Q4 makes the most sense to me too. It makes the most of the entire calendar year. Pop a compilation/anthology out in November and look at the Christmas market giving sales an extra bump. The documentary in May should (I'd hope) give Gold a big boost. We'll have had the Waterloo HSM/singles box/pic discs in April. Possibly even a brief return to their respective charts for the album and singles. That would leave a gap in the period June to October. Ideally, Gold would still be riding high but why not reissue More Gold on vinyl around then?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 16, 2024 10:34:04 GMT
I wonder if it's possible that Epic tried to engineer a situation where the B-side turned into a hit as big as the A-side? If people had bought the Atlantic import in sufficient quantities (and from the range of shops whose sales counted towards the charts), you'd have had separate entries for LAYLOM (Epic A-side) and OAOAO (Atlantic A-side). A bit like what happened with Boney M's Rivers Of Babylon/Brown Girl In The Ring (although that really happened because of radio DJs flipping the record).
If there were enough imports, I think it's possible that OAOAO might have ended up being recorded as the bigger hit. That's not a comment on either song. What I mean is that people would have been more likely to buy the cheaper 7", whether it was the A- or B-side they preferred.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 15, 2024 14:23:01 GMT
I'm similarly curious foreverfan. I suspect that many people will skip to the Voyage chapter first, in case there's anything genuinely new to be discovered. The rest of the book seems to focus on the promotional aspects of each release, which I'm still interested in. It might be another day or two before the first general reviews are in. They'll help me decide whether to order the e-book.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 15, 2024 14:18:29 GMT
Those imports didn't make their way to Ireland either, sadly. If you still have the record 19mark62, were the A- and B-sides flipped? I can find an Atlantic 12" release with LAYLOM on the A-side, but the 7" seems to have On And On And On as the A-side. If that's the version that was imported to the UK, it might help explain why the sales weren't combined: it's technically two different singles. ABBA's UK team really were snoozing at the wheel back then. Slight side note. I dug out my Epic 12" (oooh er, missus) to play on my new record player. The sound is amazingly crisp and detailed - better than the album. It really was a fantastic pressing. I wonder if the US 12" is even better, given that it plays at 33RPM?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 15, 2024 11:22:39 GMT
That's disappointing, Alan . I can't say I find his books hugely exciting but they usually are informative. This particular book seems to promise a different angle to what's gone before. I'm guessing that most people will skip to the Voyage chapter for something that hasn't been retold umpteen times. In his Recording Sessions book, he sometimes tries to describe something only he will be permitted to hear. It's a fool's errand in many respects, because it relies on the reader being able to reconstruct that description as an imagined sound. Who among us can really do that? I'm curious about what the rest of the book offers. Half a decade on sleeves, promo campaigns and reviews seems a lot. I hope it can bring something interesting (if not exciting). I still dip in to the Recording Sessions book. Returning to the BLDS book takes a lot more effort. I read it, cover-to-cover, but I think it really would have needed the cooperation and participation of the ABBA members to properly flesh out the personal biographies. It's a bit more academic than most personal biographies - a bit drier - and that kind of dials down the capacity for excitement. All that said, he can at least be relied upon to avoid the lurid, tabloidesque factoids and "dramatic licence" that reduced virtually every other attempt at a biography to subpar soap opera scripts.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 13, 2024 8:11:51 GMT
Wow, jj! Thanks for that. Have to agree with tagaytay that Japan looks like a far more sensible bet. I'm sure there may be other factors and other data folded into the decision-making process, but you have to wonder whether relocating/bilocating at all makes business sense. Could a North American run be cost effective either?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 12, 2024 13:22:01 GMT
Thanks, truedogz - great to have lived experience here. I didn't realise that the media pullback had started before the 1977 tour. Another example, I suppose, of ABBA triumphing in the face of begrudgery. Did Molly Meldrum fancy himself as a bit of a starmaker? Your thinking on the viability of the show seems to match that of mine and johnny 's: there'd be heavy reliance on tourists to keep bums on seats. My guess is that if push came to shove in a choice between locating it in Asia or Australia, they might end up making a decision on what they saw in ABBA-The Movie...? Is Australia a tourism hotspot for Asian people?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 11, 2024 16:25:55 GMT
It's a topic worthy of its own documentary - or episode in a documentary series. That mini implosion really was to be expected after that level of overexposure. I wonder if the (apparently) sudden drop in commercial fortunes in the UK market in 1982 could be seen as a bubble bursting too? Or maybe the result of a slow puncture? Again, another candidate for documentary examination. They'd be less cheerful episodes, but fascinating nonetheless.
I was thinking much the same thing about locating Voyage in Australia. The population of 25.69 million is big. But how accessible is the country for tourism? Maybe our Australian members can shed some light on how big the tourist market is - and whether Voyage could enhance that? While ABBA's bubble burst in 1977/78, I think their status has recovered enough to lure many of their old fans out of the woodwork. Would the installation of the show cost another $140 million, or would it be a lower cost? ? I would hope that some of the development costs are not needed again and that some files could be copied (he said, exposing his utter ignorance of such techy complicatedness). Would Australasian investors see it as a worthwhile punt?
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 11, 2024 8:59:18 GMT
[...] "This film will capture the scale of the challenge they faced as a Swedish band gaining success and respect on the global stage, and how the unique combination of four talents produced music that defined the decade and changed pop music forever." [...] I think this aspect of the story is really compelling. It shows that the music was so strong, it could withstand the sneering antipathy at home and the tedious snobbery elsewhere. Not just withstand, but triumph. The peak of their success coincided with punk - the movement that was supposed to kill off all that ABBA stood for. They dabbled with disco and survived the knuckle-dragging Disco Sucks movement utterly unscathed. And, half a century on, ABBA are the ultimate pop icons. It's quite a story. That it hasn't been told properly before now is astonishing.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 9, 2024 16:19:10 GMT
Maybe the documentary will give them a moment to talk about the shoulda-been-singles? I wonder if CMP's new book addresses the decision to recast it as "just" an album track? I'm not going to go into the song's merits - I'd like to focus instead on its position in the running order on the VV album. Second-on-side-two tended not to be where ABBA planted their 'best' stuff, certainly in terms of 'lead single' material. It's the slot where, up to that point, they'd stuck things like 'Rock Me', 'That's Me' and 'Hole in Your Soul', not to mention 'Me and Bobby and Bobby's Brother' and 'Watch Out'.* My question is, when was the VV running order finalised and was it a relatively last-minute decision to 'hide' IIWFTN slightly out of the way? Was this confirmation that B&B (and/or others) somehow lost belief a little in the song? All reliable answers and unreliable speculation gratefully received! * Later, we'd get 'Our Last Summer' and (much, much later) 'Keep an Eye on Dan', though not forgetting 'One of Us' which arguably bucked the trend - but I've got my own theories about that one! Not sure I'd agree with that take on running orders. IMO, the Waterloo album suggests they hadn't clue how to structure a running order. The more general "wisdom" behind album running orders is that the weakest track is placed second last on side two, but ABBA certainly didn't seem to follow that "rule": LAYLOM, STMF and NDAI are great cases in point. And they didn't usually frontload the albums with hits either. Arrival, The Album, Voulez-Vous, and The Visitors opened with non-singles - or tracks that got A-side status in fewer territories. Even the ABBA album opened with Mamma Mia, which they had to be pressured into releasing as a single. My guess is that the tempo and key of a song, and then its running time, were the main factors in where it was placed.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 9, 2024 15:55:04 GMT
Welcome flynnic ! Great first post. You're totally right about the HSM programme coming to a natural end: there's only the eponymous album left. Unless they decide to bring Gracias Por La Musica into the fold? I suppose they could do it for Voyage. It might feel a bit soon, given that it's only two years old. But it might improve on the muddy sound of the current version. Some creative thinking is now needed to keep people from being able to clear their credit card balances. I suppose that, technically, they could do HSMs of Gold and More Gold.... If so, I hope they do so on 33RPM discs. I treated myself to The Visitors HSM and, while the sound is fantastic, it's like I forked out for a pair of very expensive 12" singles. At least I get my steps in, returning to the record player every ten minutes to change sides/discs. Gold/More Gold would probably be 5-disc sets at 45RPM? That's mortgage/sell-a-kidney territory. I'm keeping some faith in Janne Schaffer's comments and even Catherine Tate's gossip. I no longer pay very serious attention to Bjorn's comments on what is/isn't left in the vaults. Benny might be a complete buzzkill on the matter too, but I think Ludvig could be a positive (albeit slow) influence there. I'd like to think that Agnetha and Frida have some persuasive power too. The content of the documentary might give some more reasonable clues as to what material remains, and what the beards' attitude to it is. I've said this before, but I hope they understand that those dusty old tracks have some real use in demonstrating exactly how hard they worked, how high their standards were, how albums were shaped, and how seriously they took their craft. Documentaries and anthologies are great for that kind of context setting. Releasing the tracks in that delineated context means that they're not peddling anything as a lost classic: they can be quasi educational; footnotes, even. The audience then decides whether it's a lost classic or a skipper.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 2, 2024 1:02:15 GMT
I, for one, am really psyched that Mystic Meg has joined the discussion.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 1, 2024 17:20:17 GMT
Rather than fade endings, I'd like if some of the Voyage arrangements could be expanded, given room to breathe. The album feels a bit short.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 1, 2024 17:18:39 GMT
That would be great. And if they decide to shake up the setlist, there's scope for the later release of a deluxe edition with extra tracks. Every little helps, I suppose, when those massive investments need to be recouped.
If they ever decide to release a VR edition, my son can kiss his Metaquest headset goodbye!
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 1, 2024 10:25:30 GMT
I think it's surprising that vocal ad libs don't feature on more ABBA tracks. The ones mentioned so far seem to have Frida cutting loose a bit. I wonder if that might be inspired by her interest in soul music? Even so, it happened a bit too rarely. Tracks like Voulez-Vous, LAYLOM, SNC, OAOAO could have been interesting opportunities for that kind of looseness and spontaneity? Maybe?
Fade endings really seem to have gone out of fashion. JAN kind of sticks out on Voyage for being the only one there. I'd love if some of the older tracks had natural endings. In some cases, it might have extended the song rather than shorten it. I could happily listen to an extra section of TDBYC that made the most of that synth/vocalising interplay and led to a proper conclusion. Chiquitita could have had a gorgeously elongated instrumental coda and natural ending too. The acapella ending that they stitched on to TACOM for a German TV performance shows how neatly things can be tied up. In this case, it brings the song full circle, with acapella intro and outro.
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